This post is a companion to my answer to Mahabharata (Hindu epic): Why is Karna so overrated?
Karna's conversation with Krishna - Udyoga Parva, Chapters 138-141
This group of chapters is titled कर्णोपनिवादपर्व (Karna Upanivada Parva), which means "The failed reconciliation with Karna".In chapter 138, Krishna Vasudeva bluntly reveals Karna's parentage, tells him that the he is in fact a Pandava, the Pandava birthright is his, the other Pandavas, Draupadi, and their sons and kin were ready to do his bidding, and that he should switch sides pronto.
Here Karna's reply is misinterpreted.
Karna uses the word अभिजानामि (abhijanami) which KMG mistranslates as "I know". It actually means "I recognize". The context being that this is the first time Karna has learnt of his true parentage from any source. KMG's translation bungles that up - makes it look like Karna always knew his parentage. It also makes it sound like Karna is actually clairvoyant, which he is not.
So the rest of the conversation reads as follows:
- Karna realizes that Krishna is speaking in good faith, and accepts Vasudeva's words and interpretations as the truth
- He recognizes the logic behind his being a Pandava and regrets having humiliated his brothers (but says nothing of Draupadi), but does not recognize them as family
- He recognizes the Sutas and Dhartarashtras as his true family
- He recognizes Krishna's might as kingmaker (not as God) and realizes that his and the Kauravas' defeat and death is inevitable, but that does not faze him
- He says that he was born for the destruction of the earth, along with Shakuni and the sons of Dhritarashtra and he is dedicated to that purpose
- To that end, he likens the forthcoming civil war to a massive sacrifice for the cleansing of the earth, and sees Duryodhana as its yajamana (performer) and his own inevitable death as the beginning of the second round of said sacrifice
- If nothing else, he is dedicated to eradicating Arjuna
- an Omnicidal Maniac who is trying to destroy the world (Class 3a / Apocalypse How) out of pure envy OR
- a self-aware necessary villain who entreats Krishna Vasudeva to let him do his job OR
- an avatar of a destructive natural force which is Above Good and Evil OR
- combinations thereof
It is important here to understand that Time's destructive nature is not necessary, it is natural. In the sense that one can't fight it, it's inevitable, but one is not expected to help its cause. Out of envy and other adharmic tendencies, Karna has willingly chosen to help this cause.
Contrast this with Rama of the Ramayana who realizes that destiny has sent grief his way, but as a man (human and male) it is his duty to fight fate (and time) anyway.
This is why choosing option b here leads to some interesting and erroneous conclusions regarding Karna being an anti-villain, noble demon, etc.
Karna's conversation with Kunti - Udyoga Parva, Chapters 142 - 144
Here we find some interesting facts- Kunti recognizes that Karna is adharmic, and that he needs redemption
- Kunti asks him to make peace with his brothers and rescue their (combined) birthright from the clutches of Duryodhana et. al.
- Karna hears from his father Surya, but disregards him
- Karna flat-out declares Kunti as "the woman who never cared" and refuses to see her or her other children as family
- Nevertheless, Karna voluntarily promises that he would not hurt Yuddhishthira, Bhima or the twins. Kunti doesn't ask him to, he just does
Earlier in Chapter 108 of the Adiparva we are told that he never refuses supplicants who come to him during his morning prayers. Kunti arrives at exactly this dedicated time. Yet he refuses her actual request, in essence breaking his much-lauded habit and going against his alleged reputation as a danaveera.
So, options:
- this promise was an attempt to salvage his philanthropy cred without actually sacrificing his real interests
- he did regret humiliating the Pandavas (except Arjuna) as he said in Chapter 139 and this was his way of repenting
- he (correctly) realized that the 4 he was sparing were not a threat to him
- His main contention was with Arjuna alone and he did not want to waste his energies on the other 4
- combinations thereof
Regardless, many people do misinterpret this as genuine unselfish generosity, which is a trait that Karna never actually exhibits anywhere in the Mahabharata.
Yuddhishthira's grief for Karna - various
In Chapter 108 of the Adiparva, we the audience learn about Karna's real parentage.But the Pandavas and Kauravas and even Karna did not know that. Because nobody told them.
In Chapter 119 of the Adiparva, the Pandavas and Kunti learn that Duryodhana poisoned Bhima. We the audience learn about Karna being one of its masterminds.
But the Pandavas and Kunti did not know that. Because nobody told them.
In the Ghoshayatra Parva, Chapter २३२, Yuddhishthira advised his brothers to join him in rescuing Duryodhana and his brothers (who were justly and soundly defeated and imprisoned by Gandharvas).
Reading the rest of this Parva, we the audience learnt that this episode actually brought the Kauravas very very close to giving up on their hostilities with the Pandavas. In fact, if it were not for Karna and Shakuni's actions at that precise point, the great and bloody civil war would not have happened.
But the Pandavas did not know that. Because nobody told them
When Krishna Vasudeva confronted Karna with his past crimes in Chapter 67 of the Karna Parva, he only talked about his atrocious behaviour during the game of dice, because even Krishna Vasudeva did not know the full extent of Karna's villainy - because he was not omniscient and nobody told him.
And then comes Chapter 27 of the Stri Parva, when Kunti finally breaks her silence, and whispers her secret to the Pandavas (and only them), asking them to perform Karna's funeral rites. After the reveal of Karna's parentage, Yuddhishthira alone grieves for Karna.
In the very next chapters (1-6), which fall in the Shanti Parva, Yuddhisthira learned the secret of Karna's life story from Narada. Narada explained how Karna hated the Pandavas from day one, and how he used his childhood friends, the sons of Dhritarashtra, to further his own agenda of envy.
Narada explained how every single effort on Karna's part was born from his hatred of the Pandavas, especially Arjuna, and his greed for fame and greatness. Because of the gross impurity and baseness of his motives, he naturally encountered curses and other obstacles. Narada advised Yuddhishthira to not grieve for this brother, because despite all wickedness he was a great kshatriya and died in fair battle.
Kunti too reiterated how she and Surya had on multiple occasions tried to bring Karna back to the path of dharma, but had failed and given him up for a lost cause.
KMG's sources were on point in these chapters, and Narada's and Kunti's narration can be read in English here: Santi Parva: Rajadharmanusasana Parva: Section I to VI
In these and further chapters of the Shanti Parva, Yuddhishthira expressed the following sentiments:
- He marvelled at the sheer magnitude of trouble Karna had caused them, and grieved for the lost opportunity of having Karna on his side, in addition to Arjuna
तेन मे दूयतेऽतीव हृदयं भ्रातृघातिनः |कर्णार्जुनसहायोऽहं जयेयमपि वासवम् ||३८||
My heart is sorely wounded by that act of fratricide. If I had both Karna and Arjuna by my side I could have conquered even Indra. - He revealed that despite witnessing Karna's atrocities at the game of dice, he was mysteriously pacified by the sight of Karna. Further:
यदा ह्यस्य गिरो रूक्षाः शृणोमि कटुकोदयाः | सभायां गदतो द्यूते दुर्योधनहितैषिणः ||४०||
तदा नश्यति मे क्रोधः पादौ तस्य निरीक्ष्य ह | कुन्त्या हि सदृशौ पादौ कर्णस्य इति मतिर्मम ||४१|| सादृश्यहेतुमन्विच्छन्पृथायास्तव चैव ह | कारणं नाधिगच्छामि कथञ्चिदपि चिन्तयन् ||४२||
Even as I heard the harshness and fury born of bitterness in his voice as he spoke in favour of Duryodhana in that gathering, having stared at his feet my anger abated instantly. It seemed to me like Karna's feet resembled Kunti's feet. I tried to enquire about the cause of this resemblance to Kunti by various means, but was never able to obtain an answer. - He regretted that he had caused the slaughter of many of his kin, including Karna, in order to obtain sovereignty. To that end, he was horrified by his actions, and fully prepared to renounce the world and starve to death. Everybody else (correctly) opposed this line of thinking
But what does this mean?
We can see that Yuddhishthira was ignorant/dismissive of Karna's crimes, so he wouldn't have expected to see him in hell. Also, we can see that he was more concerned about having killed a brother rather than just another opponent. That said, is Yuddhishthira's grief a consequence of his own gentle nature or an indication that Karna deserved redemption?
Vyasa confirms the former hypothesis. He says:
एकं हत्वा यदि कुले शिष्टानां स्यादनामयम् | कुलं हत्वाथ राष्ट्रं वा न तद्वृत्तोपघातकम् ||१९|| अधर्मरूपो धर्मो हि कश्चिदस्ति नराधिप | धर्मश्चाधर्मरूपोऽस्ति तच्च ज्ञेयं विपश्चिता ||२०|| तस्मात्संस्तम्भयात्मानं श्रुतवानसि पाण्डव | ... त्वं तु शुक्लाभिजातीयः परदोषेण कारितः | अनिच्छमानः कर्मेदं कृत्वा च परितप्यसे ||२५||Every learned person in the Mahabharata speaks of Karna's sins, but not one of them speaks about his redemption. The rest of the Pandavas don't even waste a single breath mourning for Karna. The fact that Karna is found seated/merged with Surya at the end also draws no comment.
If a clan can be saved by the slaughter of an individual, or a country saved by slaughtering a family, then such slaughter is not a sin. O king, sometimes dharma appears as adharma and vice versa, but the knowledgable can distinguish between them. O learned one, be you consoled by such knowledge... O noble one, your hand was forced by the mistakes of others, you did (wage war etc.) unwillingly and even having done it you torment yourself [as befits your nobility].
So any sane person would logically conclude that Karna was a garden variety bad guy who was mourned by the overly noble hero. Right?
And yet it is here that we find the greatest example of Alternative Character Interpretation, namely that Yuddhishthira's "love" for his brother would have redeemed Karna, and Yuddhishthira's grief is the result of guilt at his inability to do so.
(full disclosure: I usually subscribe to this kind of thinking)
Does this sound familiar? It should, because it is the exact same attitude that Thor of Marvel Cinematic Universe apparently harbours for his (adopted) brother Loki.
(disclaimer: MCU Thor, Loki, etc. are not to be confused with the actual Norse deities)
The argument here is that Thor has great and nearly unwavering love for Loki as a person (which is true and heartwarming), Loki himself loved his (adopted) mother Freya and therefore Loki is worthy of redemption.
The problem is that we cannot readily extend this argument to Yuddhishthira, because he is not shown as feeling such warmth towards Karna as a person, and Karna clearly felt nothing but hate for the whole Pandava/Vrishni consortium.
Also, the argument itself may not be logical.
11 comments:
Very neatly debated. I was referred to your answers by a quora member/friend. I managed to follow ur quora answers to this blog. Cheers on finding a like minded analyst.
Different People, Different Thoughts. One cannot know who their biological mother and/ father is until & unless told by her. My point is we cannot ignore or object our Puranas, unless and until we have any solid proofs/ points to defend our statements. Personal opinions/ assumptions would mostly be baseless and cannot be trusted up on or considered for further arguments.
Nevertheless, if you got time, patience and willingness to know about 'Draupadi', you can visit my blog and comment.
In fact, there are many shrines for Goddess Draupadi, spread in Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. One of the shrines, where She is a Grama-Devatha and Kula-Devatha to many, is located in one of the small villages of Tamil Nadu.
The village is named KONDAL, Mayiladuthurai Taluk, Nagapattinam District, Nidur P.O, Tamil Nadu.
http://blog.thitherwards.com/draupadi/
Draupadi Amman Thunai - May you all be BLESSED by HER grace!!
It doesn't make sense whatsoever ,Bori actually dissolves karna's name from various conspiracies like Bhima's poisoning ,etc .Even Draupadi after vastraharan only blames duryodhan for lakshagraha and please is there any proof that karna was white washed gradually or whatever ? Because if such faults are to be found then Pandavas themselves have many ,you are great with words and have a great command over your language but you can't fool the people who know the truth ,if whitewashing kauravas and Karna is something that happened then why can't it be true for Pandavas ? Yudhistira abashing Draupadi when she cried after keechaka hit her ,Him purposely asking her to come scantily clothed revealing her navel and to cry for sympathy in the dice hall ,Arjuna breaking his brahmachari vrata and going on a marriage spree only to abandon the women someway or the other while actual texts does say Draupadi didn't like having other women in the castle ,it funny how things played out for Arjuna ,not to forget Khandiva that was destroyed by the Arjuna and Krishna which KMG attributed to Brahma's lore which Bori has ommitted completely and Krishna told in kurukshetra that Ashwasena was a snake that Arjuna had written wronged previously (heroes who wronged people,lol) ,even Krishna who blamed karna for Bhima poisoning in the end as per KMG has ommitted it ,Shishupala somehow spoke the facts in the Rajasuya sacrifice which wasn't much of an insult but Krishna killed in the name of insults ,when Bhishma to Drona spoke the same for Karna it must be true ,somehow the pios Yudhistira managed to wed his brother's wife but it got attributed to god choice and stuff while Kunti on another passage previously said such women are harlot ,Yudhistira even lied about Bhima's eligibility ,I read all your answers which are so unbiased and perfect but only Mahabharata especially karna is a character that brings out your pure hatred as you mix facts to convey your truth .As far as we know Mahabharata clearly says when a character lies or when he doesn't and when Karna rejected Kunti and Surya's advice it is clearly written that he didn't waver from 'Truth' ,also Kunti before approaching karna clearly said that she was going to talk to karna for her kids not him and as far as kindness of karna goes it's mentioned in various places ,his specific generosity isn't mentioned but his Kavach Dana is enough to prove his greatness which again I believe is lie as per you ,tell me again the generosity and greatness in burning down a forest with all its creatures ? And as far as Narada goes he does praise karna ,if jealousy is a meter of comparison then Arjuna's jealousy towards Eklavya isn't mentioned wrong but as readers we know it's wrong ,somehow Bhima breaking kauravas brothers bones and drowning them ,dragging them is called childishness but duryodhana who suddenly in the next verses decided to kill them was out of malice ,I mean seriously he was more jealous of Yudhistira in an age he couldn't possibly know any outcome .The main fact is nowhere in Hindu mythology has the king been denied the right to choose his heir yet somehow Pandu who wasn't the heir was made king but then he leaves for forest making Dritrashtra the main king yet his son didn't have right over throne but the elder son of the younger brother whose dad was a hermit came back for claiming the throne ,the whole equation seems so wrong .I can keep going on and show various other wrong doings if Pandavas but I am bored and don't want to waste my time in this non sense that only seems to attract Arjuna lovers ...
Some correction 'Duryodhana tried to poison bhima which is called out of malise in the next verse as this anonymous says right after bhima breaking bones and drowning kaurava brothers in his childhood ,rest all is so true ,thr writer of the main post is just a whiny little feminist with no proofs and keeps crying on the basis of some theory to degrade karna's status ...
But the point is she or anybody can't deteriorate karna's status and ishita Roy chaudary you aren't even smart modify facts ,your answers are literally shit !
You are such a great writer but in the end you are a biased Arjuna fan who can't stand karna's greatness !!!
Brilliant post.
Nonetheless, bookmarking this post for future reference.
Sorry for responding so late as I discovered this thread provided by a Quora friend a while ago. But, isn't your response about the blogger being an Arjuna fan a little emotional? You must have good reasons for explaining Karna's greatness. Why don't you instead state these? Please remember the points mentioned by the blogger
It happens....there are so many people (jerks) which can't tolerate Karna's greatness ...as it is clear that Karna was better than all those panda brothers combined.... He was greatest worrier, greatest donor...,Greater husband, greater king..and friend... So that those so called Arjuna fans..become jealous of Karna just like their hero Arjuna was jealous of Karna and eklavya......
they are jealous that Karna outshines their heroes in all the places ......so they have started anti-karna campaign...
They are also abusing sons of Karna..as they can't take a dig at Amithanh bachhan and jitendra..so they are abusing abhishek bachhan and Tushar kapoor....
poor Arjuna fans.....
Remember one thing you can hide the flower but can't hide the fragrance.....
Great post Ishita. Very well referenced and great analysis.
My take on this is that for Yudhishthir, blood was always thicker than water. He was only grieving for Karna because he found out he was his brother. Until that point, he cursed Karna very liberally. Yudhishthir only grieved for war at Kurukshetra for the cousins he killed. He really didn't care so much about the ordinary soldiers or other kings. If he did care about 'pointless slaughter', he would not have sanctions another round of salughter for his Ashvamedha yagna.
You are right that Yudhishthir was angry at seeing the Kauravas in Swarga and his brothers in hell (yet another illusion created by the Gods to test him). His cruel words at the time of death for his brothers and wife, and hs undue haste to reach heaven rather than sit and comfort the dying are shockingly sad.
After seeing Swarga and Narka, Yudhishthir transforms and learns the true meaning of the word 'compassion'. When he does that, the illusion of swarga, narka dissolves and he is asked to transcend to the next level of consciousness, where he sees that everyone has returned to their own realm - of devlok or danva sabha. There is no Duryodhan in heaven. He is with his Rakshas friends and Karna is not in narka, but sitting with Surya.
How sad that even after reading ALL this, many people still can't get over the fact that this was a divine lila on a magnificent scale and that Arjun, Karna, Duryodhan etc were just actors of a play on a world stage. As evidenced by the virtol spewed by Karna-bhaktas in your feedback section, some people just don't get that each person in the Mahabharata was given a role to play and they ALL played their parts so well, we are still arguing about 'who was best' 5000 years later!
Dear Sir,
Have you even read the Bhagwad Gita? or read about the fight of Lord Krishna with Lord Shiva? Just to downplay some character why are you downplaying the god? The blog neither posts any proof with sanskrit translation. If you really want to prove point please give some quotes which prove your stance either from BORI or some accurate translation instead of writing views.
Yours faithfully
~~~
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