tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-47419038532299932712024-03-04T05:56:44.492+05:30Theories of EverythingLimahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-81232137572912978842023-06-06T10:51:00.005+05:302023-07-07T10:34:10.486+05:30The banality of Big Tech’s evil<p>I was referred to the article by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Doctorow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Cory Doctorow</a> entitled <i><a href="https://doctorow.medium.com/ayyyyyy-eyeeeee-4ac92fa2eed">Ayyyyyy Eyeeeee</a>
- The lie that raced around the world before the truth got its boots on</i> by
a Tumblr post.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It pertains to one particular lie propagated by those who
shill machine learning under the brand of AI, one called ‘criti-hype’ i.e. criticism
that incorporates a self-serving commercial boast. To use the article’s example
case:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote><p class="MsoQuote">But there’s another aspect to Hamilton’s fantasy about the
blood-lusting, operator-killing drone: this may be a <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">dangerous</b> weapon, but it is also a <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">powerful </b>one.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">A drone that has the “smarts” to “realize” that its primary
objective of killing enemies is being foiled by a human operator in a specific
air-traffic control tower is a <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">very
smart</b> drone. File the rough edges off that bad boy and send it into
battle and it’ll figure out angles that human operators might miss, or lack the
situational awareness to derive. Put that algorithm in charge of space-based
nukes and tell the world that even if your country bombs America into
radioactive rubble, the drones will figure out who’s responsible and nuke ’em
’till they glow! <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">Yee-haw, I’m the
Louis Pasteur of Mutually Assured Destruction!</b></p></blockquote><p class="MsoQuote"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;"></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The genius of this tactic is described thusly:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote><p class="MsoQuote">By focusing on Facebook’s own claims about behavior
modification, these critics shifted attention away from Facebook’s real source
of power: evading labor and tax law, using predatory pricing and killer
acquisitions to neutralize competitors, showering lawmakers in dark money to
forestall the passage and/or enforcement of privacy law, defrauding advertisers
and publishers, illegally colluding with Google to rig ad markets, and using
legal threats to silence critics.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">These are very boring sins, the same tactics that every
monopolist has used since time immemorial. Framing Facebook as merely the
latest clutch of mediocre sociopaths to bribe the authorities to look the other
way while it broke ordinary laws suggests a pretty ordinary solution: enforce
those laws, round up the miscreants, break up the company.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">However, if Facebook is run by evil sorcerers, then we need
to create entirely novel anti-sorcery measures, the likes of which society has
never seen. That’ll take a while, during which time, Facebook can go on
committing the same crimes as Rockefeller and Carnegie, but faster, with
computers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">And best of all, Facebook can take “evil sorcerer” to the
bank. There are plenty of advertisers, publishers, candidates for high office,
and other sweaty, desperate types who would love to have an evil sorcerer on
their team, and they’ll pay for it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">So long as Congress is focused on preventing our robot
overlords from emerging, they won’t be forcing these companies to halt discriminatory
hiring and rampant spying.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">Best of all, the people who get rich off this stuff get to
claim to be evil sorcerers, rather than boring old crooks.</p></blockquote><p class="MsoQuote"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The article pointed me to a book authored by Doctorow, <i><span style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold;">How to Destroy Surveillance Capitalism</span></i>,
the entirety of which is available <a href="https://onezero.medium.com/how-to-destroy-surveillance-capitalism-8135e6744d59#8020">here</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The book is an in depth examination of the phenomenon of
Surveillance Capitalism, one aspect of which is talked about in the article.
Here is a non-exhaustive summary of the book.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Doctorow starts by exploring why we have a rise of
conspiracy theories, anti-intellectualism and misinformation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote>What if the trauma of living through <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">real conspiracies</b> all around us —
conspiracies among wealthy people, their lobbyists, and lawmakers to bury
inconvenient facts and evidence of wrongdoing (these conspiracies are commonly
known as “corruption”) — is making people vulnerable to conspiracy theories?</blockquote><o:p></o:p><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Like in the article, he points out that Big Tech does not
have mind control beams, and persuasion itself is not so powerful, as
monopolism is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote><p class="MsoQuote">influence campaigns that seek to displace existing, correct
beliefs with false ones have an effect that is small and temporary while
monopolistic dominance over informational systems has massive, enduring
effects. Controlling the results to the world’s search queries means
controlling access both to arguments and their rebuttals and, thus, control
over much of the world’s beliefs. If our concern is how corporations are
foreclosing on our ability to make up our own minds and determine our own
futures, the impact of dominance far exceeds the impact of manipulation
and should be central to our analysis and any remedies we seek.</p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p><p>Doctorow debunks the idea that collecting and hoarding data
is in itself a source of power – rather it is a Ponzi scheme, an application of
the greater fool theory: </p><blockquote><p class="MsoQuote">Pick-up artists assume they fail to entice women because they
are bad at being pick-up artists, not because pick-up artistry is bullshit.
Pick-up artists are bad at selling themselves to women, but they’re much better
at selling themselves to men who pay to learn the secrets of pick-up artistry.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">Even if you never figure out how to profit from the data,
someone else will eventually offer to buy it from you to give it a try.</p></blockquote><p class="MsoQuote"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The real danger of such data hoards is from identity theft
and related crimes. And of course, government surveillance.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote>any hard limits on surveillance capitalism would hamstring
the state’s own surveillance capability. </blockquote><o:p></o:p><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Again he points out how Big Tech’s so-called mind control or
even influence is based on tenuous stuff.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote>For example, <a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.01415/full" target="_blank">the reliance on the “Big Five” personality traits</a> as a
primary means of influencing people even though the “Big Five” theory is
unsupported by any large-scale, peer-reviewed studies and is <a href="https://www.wired.com/story/the-noisy-fallacies-of-psychographic-targeting/" target="_blank">mostly the realm of marketing hucksters and pop psych</a>.</blockquote><o:p></o:p><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The antidote, he says, is in the poison itself. Facebook
started by allowing people to import data from other social media and uploading
contacts, i.e. it started by exploiting interoperability of technology. And it
can be ended the same way.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote>Today, incumbency is seen as an unassailable advantage.
Facebook is where all of your friends are, so no one can start a Facebook
competitor. But adversarial compatibility reverses the competitive advantage:
If you were allowed to compete with Facebook by providing a tool that imported
all your users’ waiting Facebook messages into an environment that competed on
lines that Facebook couldn’t cross, like eliminating surveillance and ads, then
Facebook would be at a huge disadvantage. </blockquote><o:p></o:p><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The biggest danger of all, is corruption, leading to an
epistemological crisis.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote><p class="MsoQuote">This concentration of both wealth and industries means that
our political outcomes are increasingly beholden to the parochial interests of
the people and companies with all the money.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">In a world as complex as this one, we have to defer to
authorities, and we keep them honest by making those authorities accountable to
us and binding them with rules to prevent conflicts of interest. We can’t
possibly acquire the expertise to adjudicate conflicting claims about the best
way to make the world safe and prosperous, but we <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">can</b> determine whether the adjudication process itself is
trustworthy.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">You’re left with a kind of inchoate constellation of rules of
thumb about which experts you trust to fact-check controversial claims and then
to explain how all those respectable doctors with their peer-reviewed research
on opioid safety <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">were</b> an
aberration and then how you know that the doctors writing about vaccine safety
are <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">not</b> an aberration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">No one can say for certain why this has happened, but the two
dominant camps are idealism (the belief that the people who argue for these
conspiracies have gotten better at explaining them, maybe with the help of
machine-learning tools) or materialism (the ideas have become more attractive
because of material conditions in the world).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">I’m a materialist. I’ve been exposed to the arguments of
conspiracy theorists all my life, and I have not experienced any qualitative
leap in the quality of those arguments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">The major difference is in the world, not the arguments. In a
time where actual conspiracies are commonplace, conspiracy theories acquire a
ring of plausibility.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">We have always had disagreements about what’s true, but today,
we have a disagreement over how we know whether something is true. This is an
epistemological crisis, not a crisis over belief. It’s a crisis over the
credibility of our truth-seeking exercises, from scientific journals (in an era
where the biggest journal publishers have been caught producing pay-to-play
journals for junk science) to regulations (in an era where regulators are
routinely cycling in and out of business) to education (in an era where
universities are dependent on corporate donations to keep their lights on).</p></blockquote><p class="MsoQuote"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Throughout the book Doctorow notes that both Big Tech and
its critics agree that tech, its powers and associated troubles are somehow
unique. Tech exceptionalism, basically. Doctorow refutes their belief. But he
does believe in one exceptional power of tech: coordination.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote><p class="MsoQuote">The hard problem of our species is
coordination. Everything from climate change to social change to running a
business to making a family work can be viewed as a collective action problem.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">The upshot of this is that our best hope of solving the big
coordination problems — climate change, inequality, etc. — is with free, fair,
and open tech. Our best hope of keeping tech free, fair, and open is to
exercise caution in how we regulate tech and to attend closely to the ways in
which interventions to solve one problem might create problems in other
domains.</p></blockquote><p class="MsoQuote"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Doctorow notes that just as anti-whalers and anti-pollution
activists were united under the term ‘ecology’ and the mandate of protecting
it, activists working against Big Tech have to unite under the umbrella of
trustbusting (enacting and enforcing anti-trust legislation and policy).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But there is a catch: governments worldwide prefer that Big
Tech clean up their own messes, by policing their users. So if you want a
temporary fix of reducing the level of online abuse and crime, while working
towards breaking up Big Tech in the long run, that won’t work.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote>That’s because any move to break up Big Tech and cut it down
to size will have to cope with the hard limit of not making these companies so
small that they can no longer afford to perform these duties — and it’s <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">expensive </b>to invest in those
automated filters and outsource content moderation. It’s already going to be
hard to unwind these deeply concentrated, chimeric behemoths that have been
welded together in the pursuit of monopoly profits. Doing so while
simultaneously finding some way to fill the regulatory void that will be left
behind if these self-policing rulers were forced to suddenly abdicate will be
much, much harder.</blockquote><o:p></o:p><p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The ultimate solution:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote"></p><blockquote><p class="MsoQuote">As cyber lawyer Lawrence Lessig wrote in his 1999 book, <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal;">Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace</b>, our
lives are regulated by four forces: law (what’s legal), code (what’s
technologically possible), norms (what’s socially acceptable), and markets
(what’s profitable).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoQuote">Getting people to care about monopolies will take
technological interventions that help them to see what a world free from Big
Tech might look like. Imagine if someone could make a beloved (but
unauthorized) third-party Facebook or Twitter client that dampens the
anxiety-producing algorithmic drumbeat and still lets you talk to your friends
without being spied upon — something that made social media more sociable and
less toxic. Now imagine that it gets shut down in a brutal legal battle. It’s
always easier to convince people that something must be done to save a thing
they love than it is to excite them about something that doesn’t even exist
yet.</p></blockquote><p class="MsoQuote"><o:p></o:p></p>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-7372494295967499052022-10-31T12:31:00.005+05:302022-10-31T12:34:23.183+05:30Arrival - the gaviṣṭi fiasco<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Open Sans;"><span>Yesterday I watched the critically acclaimed English movie Arrival (2016) for the first time, and the first thing that stuck with me was the use of the word </span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="text-align: justify; white-space: pre-wrap;">गविष्टि (</span><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">gaviṣṭi).</span></span></span></p><p style="text-align: justify;"><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Open Sans; white-space: pre-wrap;">***spoilers ahead***</span></span></p><p style="text-align: justify;"><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Open Sans; white-space: pre-wrap;">In the film, the protagonist, a professor of linguistics, is approached by the US government to attempt to translate alien communication. She tells the Col. who approaches her that she needs to see said aliens and talk to them face to face in order to translate. The Col. refuses, with the implication that he would seek another expert. Our protagonist asks him to judge the proficiency of their other candidate by asking them</span></span></p><p style="text-align: justify;"><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif"><span style="font-family: Open Sans; white-space: pre-wrap;"></span></span></p><blockquote style="text-align: justify;"><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif" style="font-family: Open Sans;">the Sanskrit word for 'war' and its translation</span></blockquote><p></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Open Sans;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">The word the candidate came up with was </span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">गविष्टि</span><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">. This is in itself strange because Sanskrit has many common words for war, all of which have also been inherited by multiple Indian languages and are in currency in the 21st century.</span></span></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Open Sans;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">What is stranger is the literal translation offered for this word. The other candidate translated it as </span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">'argument', and our protagonist translated it as </span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">'desire for more cows', and the movie implies that the latter is more accurate.</span></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Open Sans;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">They're both wrong. It is an easy error to make, because it is a compound word made out of the word </span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">गव, which indeed means cow, and ई</span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">ष्टि which does mean desire. But this</span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"> error is all the more egregious because linguistics is one of the foundations of the movie and the story it was based on. </span></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">In reality, the word गव, meaning cow, is often put in compound words for emphasis, both in Sanskrit and its nibling languages such as Bengali. I have here four examples to demonstrate my point.</span></p><ol style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-inline-start: 48px;"><li aria-level="1" dir="ltr" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; list-style-type: decimal; margin-left: -14.7402pt; padding-left: 7.10543e-15pt; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre;"><p dir="ltr" role="presentation" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Open Sans;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="text-align: left; white-space: pre;">गविष्टि (</span></span><span style="text-align: left; text-decoration-line: none;">gaviṣṭi): </span><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">A desire as ardent as the desire for cows. Ultimate desire, basically. <u>Extended meaning:</u> the conflict fuelled by said desire, or the desire for such conflict. In practice, the kind of conflict referred to by this word is restricted to individual battles, not a whole war</span></span></p></li><li aria-level="1" dir="ltr" style="background-color: transparent; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; list-style-type: decimal; margin-left: -14.7402pt; padding-left: 7.10543e-15pt; vertical-align: baseline;"><p dir="ltr" role="presentation" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Open Sans;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="text-align: left; white-space: pre;">गवेषणा (</span></span><span style="text-align: left;"><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif"><span style="white-space: pre;">gaveṣaṇā): </span></span></span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Synonymous with above, including the extended meaning about conflict. However when used in neuter/feminine gender it has the <u>additional meaning of</u>: the quest/research undertaken to acquire the object of said desire. This last meaning is now the dominant meaning of the word, especially in the extant Indian languages where it is used to describe scientific and philosophical research.</span></span></p></li><li aria-level="1" dir="ltr" style="background-color: transparent; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; list-style-type: decimal; margin-left: -14.7402pt; padding-left: 7.10543e-15pt; vertical-align: baseline;"><p dir="ltr" role="presentation" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="text-align: left;"><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif"><span style="white-space: pre;">গোহারা (gohārā): </span></span></span><span face="Open Sans, sans-serif"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">A loss as bad as the loss of cows, i.e. an utter and humiliating defeat. I grew up hearing this applied to the Indian Men’s cricket team’s losses, especially against their Pakistani counterparts</span></span></span></p></li><li aria-level="1" dir="ltr" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; list-style-type: decimal; margin-left: -14.7402pt; padding-left: 7.10543e-15pt; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre;"><p dir="ltr" role="presentation" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 0pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="text-align: left; white-space: pre;">গোরুখোঁজা (gorukhonja): </span>A search as desperate as the search for a missing cow.</span></p></li></ol><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Evidently, cows were and continue to be important!</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Open Sans;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">I don’t know how they got <span style="text-align: left; white-space: pre;">Gaviṣṭi </span>to mean ‘argument’. Yes, the word ‘</span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="text-align: left; white-space: pre;">गो</span><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">’ also means ‘word’ in addition to 'cow', but that has no relation to how it got to acquire the meaning of a ‘conflict’.</span></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Anyways, as a fun exercise, here are the actual words for war in Sanskrit and their meanings, in order of popularity of usage:</span></p><ol style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-inline-start: 48px;"><li aria-level="1" dir="ltr" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; list-style-type: decimal; margin-left: -14.7402pt; padding-left: 7.10543e-15pt; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre;"><p dir="ltr" role="presentation" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">युद्ध (yuddha) - in the masculine gender: the conquered party; in the feminine gender: the action of gaining victory over, or launching attack on; in the neutral gender: the battle or war that is fought</span></p></li><li aria-level="1" dir="ltr" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; list-style-type: decimal; margin-left: -14.7402pt; padding-left: 7.10543e-15pt; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre;"><p dir="ltr" role="presentation" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">संग्राम (sangrama) - the coming together or assembly of a tribe/village/troops thereof, to beat the shit out of other tribes/villages. The resulting battle/war.</span></p></li><li aria-level="1" dir="ltr" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; list-style-type: decimal; margin-left: -14.7402pt; padding-left: 7.10543e-15pt; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre;"><p dir="ltr" role="presentation" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Open Sans;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">रण (ra</span><span style="text-align: left;">ṇa) -</span><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"> in the masculine gender: joy, pleasure (related to रम्), making noise (onomatopoeia); in the neuter gender: fight, struggle, war - presumably in the sense of 'an encounter that makes a lot of noise'</span></span></p></li><li aria-level="1" dir="ltr" style="background-color: transparent; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; list-style-type: decimal; margin-left: -14.7402pt; padding-left: 7.10543e-15pt; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre;"><p dir="ltr" role="presentation" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">समर (samara) - the act of joining together to hurt others, war.</span></p></li></ol><p><span id="docs-internal-guid-93ed18e1-7fff-c3b8-2a13-ce50e5f18864" style="font-family: Open Sans;"></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">It is significant, I think, that two out of these words focus on the fundamentally cooperative nature of war - about how war is a collective effort - it is not one person’s struggle against anything.</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.44; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 6pt; text-align: justify;"><span face=""Open Sans", sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Open Sans; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Coming back to the film, another egregious error it commits is in its handling of <a href="en.wikipedia.org /wiki/linguistic_relativity" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Linguistic relativity</a>. But that's a subject for another post.</span></p>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-6220675484625937302020-10-21T14:39:00.000+05:302020-10-21T14:39:34.237+05:30Women in the Vedas<p><span style="font-family: inherit;">I came across <a href="https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-status-of-women-in-the-early-Vedic-period/answer/Kiron-Krishnan-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this answer</a> about the status of women in Vedic society. It is very detailed, and the author is a subject matter expert on Vedic texts.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: inherit;">However I was intrigued by a singular claim being made in it - that Vedic Society was not patriarchal. So I requested citations for the answer, which the author graciously provided in a <a href="https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-status-of-women-in-the-early-Vedic-period/all_comments/Kiron-Krishnan-1?comment_id=165781765&comment_type=2&__filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__sncid__=8828830363&__snid3__=12961990018" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">comment</a>.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: inherit;">This is my further response to the answer.</span></p><table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="MsoTableGrid" style="border-collapse: collapse; border: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-yfti-tbllook: 1184;">
<tbody><tr style="mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-irow: 0;">
<td style="border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><b><span style="font-family: inherit;">Text of original answer<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="border-left: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><b><span style="font-family: inherit;">Citations in comment<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="border-left: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><b><span style="font-family: inherit;">My observations<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 1;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Here, we should be speaking of the status of women in society, as
reflected in the sūktas of Rigveda in the early Vedic period.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;">First, the society was presumably patrilineal (tracing lineage
through male descendant) one, though not patriarchy.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">In your citations you frequently quote the Rigveda, the Atharvaveda
and even the Arthaśāstra together, even though their provenance is several
centuries, even millennia apart. It sounds as if the culture they describe is
contiguous and unchanging across those impossibly vast stretches of time. Is
such comparison valid?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">And then there is the small matter of caste.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Whom do these texts represent? Only the Brahmins and their customs? Or
Vedic society at large? Do you have evidence?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Because unless you prove that the Vedic samhitas are somehow
representative of the entire society of that time, you don’t get to make
statements about society at large.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 2;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Even then, we have some sages identifying themselves with matronymic
instead of patronymic, like Dīrghatamas who is known best as Māmateya, or
Suhastya as Ghauṣeya. Both mother and father are equally cherished. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Dīrghatamas refers to himself as Māmateya - RV 1.147.3, 1.152.6,
1.158.6. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Gautama refers to Dīrghatamas as Māmateya in RV 4.4.13. The sage of
RV 10.41 is Suhastya Ghauṣeya, the son of Ghoṣā, as per Rigveda Anukramaṇī.
Ghoṣā is his mother, who is the sage of RV 10.39 and 10.40</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">I fail to understand how usage of matronymics translates to “Both
mother and father are equally cherished”.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;">The correct conclusion would instead be: mother’s name was considered
a valid basis for identification of individuals. Which is very cool, but in
and of itself has no bearing on whether a society is patrilinear or
patriarchal.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 3;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">This is quite the opposite of absolute patriarchies where “G”od is
imagined as father and creating a series of patriarchs in myths who act kings
and propagate the mankind. To compare, in many patriarchal Indo European
societies, Sky-dad was given more prominence as opposed to the Earth-mother,
whereas Rigveda never does this, and whenever possible, addresses both
together, in the compound form Dyāvāpṛthivī.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">There is no sūkta in Rigveda dedicated to Dyaus Pitar alone, it is
always invoking both - the Dyāvāpṛthivī. This is a fact.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Women are represented among deities. Divinity is considered plural,
and necessarily bigendered.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Impressive. Also less relevant than you think: </span><a href="https://www.quora.com/Why-is-goddess-worship-important-for-the-world/answer/Ishita-Roy-9" style="font-family: inherit;">My
answer to "Why is goddess worship important for the world?"</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">TL;DR version:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">"the Hindu patriarchal impulse to subordinate women is rooted in
the acknowledgment that women are powerful... the task for Hindu feminists,
at an ideological level, is to rescue shakti from its patriarchal
prison"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Source: </span><a href="http://www.profcohen.net/reli113/uploads/texts/erndl-shakti.pdf" style="font-family: inherit;" target="_blank" title="www.profcohen.net">Is Shakti Empowering for Women?
Reflections on Feminism and the Hindu Goddess</a></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 4;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">This also reflects in the idea of daṃpatī (the Mister-Mistress
couple) as rulers of home, rather than male.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Dampatī is almost always a dual compound present in Rigveda, that
occurs in the sense of “ruling couple of house”. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Co-rulers of the home. Okay.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Who has the final say in case of disputes?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 5;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">However, as I said in the answer, this is slightly different from
other IE cultures where cognate of dam(s)pati is used for “the lord” of the
house, and a cognate of “dams-patnī” is used to address a mistress.
(Cf. <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/d%C3%A9ms_p%C3%B3tis" target="_blank">déms pótis</a>) </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">So does the word damspatni exist in Vedic Sanskrit? What does it
mean? Is it also used in the sense of “ruling couple of the house”?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 6;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Aśvins in RV 2.39.2 are compared to married couple taking part in
religious rites, Agni is said to be anointed as Mitra (/companion) when he
sets together the dampatī of one mind, etc.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">So one of the Aśvins just sits around doing nothing but giving
consent, and the other one does most of the job?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Also the married couple is likewise being compared to a pair of
twins. (Analogies are commutative, you know.) What does that mean? What were
the “twin stereotypes” in the Vedic age?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 7;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Women often had a different world of their own, engrossed in arts -
singing, dancing. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Gender roles. Start of the slippery slope towards patriarchy</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 8;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">They also are supposed to handle the ceremonies by custom. (And the
adventurous yajña toiling is a male effort with a lesser but very necessary
physical participation of females) </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">This reminds me of a statement in ISKCON’s <i><a href="https://iskconeducationalservices.org/HoH/practice/dharma/womens-dharma/">Heart
of Hinduism</a>. </i>Take a look:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">“the wife’s roles were centred on the home and she was not burdened
with contributing towards the family income.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">In both the statements, work traditionally associated with men is
framed as toil or burden that women are being spared from. What is
conspicuously absent from these statements is that the kind of work being
described here enable men to have a huge advantage in power.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Surely you can’t deny that, can you?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 9;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Rigveda also shows women did work like grinding and selling flours to
earn their money, as Śiśu Āṅgirasa would suggest in RV 9.112.3.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">So women could earn money. Could they keep it?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 10;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">They also usually looked after household, ruled the husband’s home
and protected the livestock. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Ref. RV 10.85.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Again with the home. I’m beginning to worry.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 11;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Women are also composer sages of Vedic verses, something we would never
have expected in a Bronze age society, with verses being handled down through
a primarily male lineage. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Even if we remove the female sages who identify themselves/are
identified with legendary females, like those of Vāc Āṃbhṛṇī, the Apālā
sūkta, Ghoṣā sūktas, sūkta of Śacī Paulomī are all indeed of female
composers. In my knowledge, I don’t know of similar women in Zoroastrian,
Greek, Norse or Roman cultures.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Allow me to point you to the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeress_(Germanic)">Völva</a> of the
Norse peoples. Unlike the female sages here, whose existence is not
corroborated by sources outside their self-identification, the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=V%C3%B6lva&redirect=no" title="Völva">Völva</a> and their counterparts in other Germanic cultures were
real women, who held actual power in society, whose presence was attested by
a culture foreign to them (Romans, in this case), and whose gravesites have
been found by archaeologists.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">It seems to me that Vedic culture is the one which has to prove
itself.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 12;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">And they have a high position in the society, as a complement to the
masculine part of nature. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">In Atharvaveda’s words (which are even used today without knowing
meaning in Brahmanic marriages) the husband-wife are compared to Ṛk-sāman,
Cakravākā pair, Dyāvāpṛthivī. A complementary vision.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">As a complement? Why as a complement? Are not people valuable on
their own?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Are the men of the Vedic period also solely cherished as being a
complement to the feminine part of nature?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Like I said you have very low standards for what constitutes a high
position in society.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 13;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">The yajña requires wife of the sacrificer, without which it cannot be
done. We might even have an allusion to ruling ladies, as Śyāvāśva’s patron’s
wife, or Śacī Paulomī and her daughter.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">A well-known fact. Every śrauta and gṛhya ritual needs one to have
the consent and presence of his wife, even in classical Brahmanism. Even in
the daily aupāsana ritual we perform, the husband asks the wife for consent,
and the wife has to respond “please do”, so that the offering is done. This
is, unfortunately getting replaced by a “temple-worship” that is heavily
male-oriented and gives no role to women. The importance of wife is
substantiated in many Rigvedic themes, esp. in the Mudgalānī episode, she
recovering her husband through mounting the chariot of yajña (RV 10.102) and
driving it to success.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">What happens if wife says “Don’t?”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Are you trying to argue that the wife is the mistress of the chariot
and the man is the charioteer – that the woman is actually in control? Or
that she even has control?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">That was a reference to the Kathopanishad, as I’m sure you’d have
noticed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Well unless you’re trying to argue the above, all this tells me is
that women’s so-called participation in yajña is mere lip service.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 14;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Most often, women appear in Rigveda as lovely, beautiful wives,
sometimes as bold, choosing lovers, but one time as “heart-breaker” in the
case of Urvaśī who breaks up with Purūravas leaving the latter in sadness. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Relevance?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 15;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Women also come as queens, as sages, as protectors of livestock, as
speakers in assemblies, as divinities, as mothers, as nurses, as
yajamānapatnīs, patrons, as charioteers, singers, dancers and so much more.
Overall, the role of women was far better than the classical times.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Not impressed by women as queens – <a href="https://time.com/5425216/ancient-egypt-women-in-power-today/">Women in
Ancient Egypt</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Do women also appear as sacrificers/priestesses, yajamanas (as
opposed to wives of one), ministers/administrators/clerks/officials (as
opposed to queens), carpenters, potters, and warriors?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Are they seen holding up half the sky, not in mythology, not in theory,
but in everyday life?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 16;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Regarding marriages, all the three are recognized - monogamy,
polygamy, polyandry. However, both polygamy and polyandry are confined to
divinities (Soma mating with waters, or Maruts with Rodasī) in early Rigveda.
In later Rigveda, we find a tilt towards acceptance of polygamy as a norm,
but monogamy is still the ideal. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">So what?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 17;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">The marriage hymn for example, talks only of a couple as a
religiously united one. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">The marriage hymn is RV 10.85, celebrating marriage of Sūryā with
Soma. In the elaboration of this sūkta in Atharvaveda (which is the
foundation of Brahmanic marriages) the pair is compared to cakravāka pair (a
kind of geese, known to be very faithful to each other till their death in
the culture) along with other complementary one-one pairs. (Ṛk-sāman, Dyāvāpṛthivī)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Again, relevance? What does this have to say for the status of a
wife? That she had job security?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 18;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">This existed even in classical Brahmanism, and thus monogamy was
always supported. You could have only one religiously recognized partner in
Brahmanism - as a wife, if she with her husband has established the Agnihotra
fire, then he cannot marry anyone else. Kings however might not have had a
restriction. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Brahmanism was made with monogamy as the ideal, so a person who has
married and has established the tretāgni with his wife becomes connected to
his wife (whatever he offers is as per her consent and she becomes a part of
his own deeds). In most of the dharmaśāstras, mentioning this instance,
remarriage for a man is prohibited (unless his wife dies). (Āpastamba
2.5.11.12 for instance)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">So monogamy = lack of patriarchy? How?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 19;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Mating against will of a woman (even if married or in a relationship)
is highly discouraged,</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">In the verses, it is always “a passionate husband with his eager
wife”. (uśatī) The institution of marriage itself exists for this. This is also
the position of Brahmanism that bases itself on Vedas. As we might see in
Āpastamba 2.1.1.18, which suggests one shall mate only when his wife decides.
In Arthaśāstra, Kauṭilya warns several times, “A man shall never have
intercourse with a woman against her will”. (<a href="https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/kautilya-arthashastra/d/doc366116.html" target="_blank">Arthaśāstra 4.12</a>)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Marital rape recognised as a crime! Wait, no, it isn’t.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Enthusiastic consent is recognised as being ideal. True. But is rape
even recognised as a crime? What are the punishments for such an act?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 20;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">as Urvaśī’s taunting of Purūravas might show. The woman could
break-up such a relationship. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">In RV 10.95, Urvaśī explains her position that she is walking away
from the relationship, by saying that Purūravas used to mate with her who
“wasn’t interested in it” (RV 10.95.5, note the term “avyatyai”, “for <a href="https://www.sanskritdictionary.com/?action=Search&iencoding=iast&lang=sans&q=avyat%C4%AB" target="_blank">avyatī</a>”) That a woman could break a marriage where she
perceived danger from her husband was true even at the time of Arthaśāstra
and even in classical times.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Wait, wait. So Urvaśī is a marital rape survivor? Wasn’t she a
“heartbreaker” a few paragraphs back?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Which is it? I’m confused.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">And why is her dumping of a rapist considered “taunting”?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 21;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Unwed girls getting pregnant was however, not viewed positively in
the society. A girl could love someone and marry her choice in public. But
unwed and still being pregnant? Women didn’t want that. Women usually shunned
these kids after giving birth in secret. However, Vedic sages stand with such
shunned kids and their mothers to an extent, that a regularly praised deed of
Indra is that he rescues the shunned son of unwed girl and uplifts him. He
also takes birth himself as a shunned son of his mother, but still fights for
the honour of his mother.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">“Unwed girls getting pregnant was however, not viewed positively in
the society.“ “that a regularly praised deed of Indra is that he rescues the
shunned son of unwed girl and uplifts him. “</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Recalled in RV 4.31.16, and also in 2.13.12, 2.15.7, 1.112.8.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">“He also takes birth himself as a shunned son of his mother, but
still fights for the honour of his mother.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Cf. RV 4.17.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Classic symptom of patriarchy. Pours water all over your matronymic
argument. Apparently a mother’s identity is not valid on its own.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 22;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">However, we don’t see any place where there is thrashing of women or
policing of women, though we have quite an interesting request to the bride
to not hit her husband and be kind! </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Wife is called “apatighnyā”, (not smiting husband) “śivā” (kind) and
prayed to be bliss to the biped and quadruped. (RV 10.85.43, 10.85.44) This
is even today “recited” to the wife faithfully as is the custom, when she
enters the household, although people have no idea of what is in the verse.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">This only tells me that violence by women was considered as being
especially bad. As opposed to violence by men which was so normalised that it
was not even mentioned.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 23;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">At least some men who tasted failed relationships did exist in
Rigvedic period too, and they were afraid of women. :) This is probably
enjoyed by Urvaśī as she cold-heartedly dismisses off Purūravas’s request
(you would understand her perspective if you see how much Purūravas was
obsessed with his manliness and his charm to attract girls before) with a
cold remark calling him fool, that long-lasting friendship for him is not
possible with women, because women have hearts of hyenas. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Enjoyed by Urvaśī? Cold-hearted? Are these words appropriate to
someone who dumped their unfaithful and rapist boyfriend?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 24;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">(hyenas symbolize self- security, self-sufficience, parenting) </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">This is the case in Rigveda, especially when Indra himself is shown
as a hyena with his thousand cubs in his mouth in RV 10.73.3.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Nice to know.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 25;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">It is interesting to see that Rigveda has no instance of force
afflicted upon women except for Indra’s exception when he fights Uṣas.
Conjugal rights were conferred upon women, as we see even in the earliest
dharmasūtras of BCEs. It is this right that Lopāmudra evokes to make her
ascetically inclined husband realize the worth of a wife in the completion of
human existence. This is also the matter related to Mudgalānī, who through
being the charioteer of her husband’s sacrifice, revives him. Indra, Soma and
even Brahmā sage become women in Rigveda. Whatever the males think of females
in that period, all the females in Rigveda are bold and outspoken - they are
quite direct, precise.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><o:p><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">By conjugal rights I hope you don’t mean the right of either party to
demand sex at will. Because that’s just a license to commit marital rape. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">The fact that women hold such license is not an indicator that the
system is not patriarchal.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">“realize the worth of a wife in the completion of human existence”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Not only classical patriarchy, but an example of how patriarchy harms
men.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">“Whatever the males think of females in that period”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">So it’s not evident is it? Just from the Rigveda. Glad you
acknowledge it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">How then, did do you make the sweeping statement before? That the
society was presumably patrilineal (tracing lineage through male descendant)
one, though <b><i>not patriarchy</i></b>.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 26;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">It is not surprising that the vivāha sūkta, the marriage hymn
(Rigveda 10.85) that has withstood the test of time, is from a woman’s
perspective. </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">The impression it has on us. Even following the tradition, the sage
is also “Sūryā Sāvitrī”. You are free to disagree.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">I don’t need your permission to disagree. But thanks. And I do
disagree.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 27;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Finally, it is interesting to see how in Rigveda and Atharvaveda, the
sage specifically consoles the young widow who lies herself beside her
husband, and commands her to “return to the world of life, be the mistress of
the progeny and legacy left by her husband”.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">RV 10.18.8, elaborated in Atharvaveda.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Quite opposite to the picture of an “obedient” daughter-in-law, the
Rigvedic bride is asked to become the “supreme queen” over her husband’s
household (saṃrājñī bhava …, RV 10.85.46). At least Śacī Paulomī’s
self-praise sūkta in Rigveda gives a vision of a woman who took pride in her
power and success.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Why? Why is a household being treated as a dominion, as opposed to a
domicile?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Homes and households are supposed to be places free of power
struggles, where people live in peace and comfort. They are supposed to be
the ultimate neutral ground.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">What does it say about the society when it treats the home as a
battleground?</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow: 28; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes;">
<td style="border-top: none; border: solid windowtext 1.0pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">This is to be specifically contrasted with post-classical India where
Satī became a known practice.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.25pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Based on whatever I have said as in Vedas and agreeing orthodox
Brahmanic scriptures, I have presented my conclusion. I believe it would be
an appeal to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_(literary_and_historical_analysis)" target="_blank">Presentism</a> to not see the obvious fact that women as
envisioned in the Vedas are quite different from what the idea of an
oppressive patriarchy demands. Or what became in later India.</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-bottom: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-left: none; border-right: solid windowtext 1.0pt; border-top: none; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; padding: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; width: 150.3pt;" valign="top" width="200">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Holding human beings accountable to standards of basic decency (the strong
not trampling the weak, people having equal rights and opportunities
irrespective of their gender, caste or other station in life) should not have
to be an “ism”. And it sure as hell is not a fallacy.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">In fact a refusal to do so either means you don’t think historical
people are fully human (<a href="https://www.racialequityinstitute.com/blog/2019/8/7/the-soft-bigotry-of-low-expectations-through-mathematics-education">Bigotry
of low expectations</a>) or that you condone their actions.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">And while you do know a lot about the texts you have quoted, you
don’t know a lot about what patriarchy means.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Patriarchy is a system in which society is organised to benefit the
handful of men in power, the male gender as a whole, and people of other
genders and classes who uphold the system, <i>in that order</i>.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">It is not defined by oppression, it is defined by power, just as a
dictatorship remains a dictatorship no matter how benevolent it might be.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">I could not find any conclusive evidence in your citations that women wielded any power in the economic, social, legal and religious spheres. The home was their sole domain, it seems, and power in this sphere was also shared, as it should be.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Your citations and the corresponding conclusions you draw from them
raise a lot of questions, and in many cases actually prove the opposite of
your central claim – that Vedic society was not patriarchal. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">That it was better than later societies in – wait, which way again?
Matronymics – countered by stigma against unwed pregnancy. Marital rape
discouraged (only discouraged, mind you) – countered by conjugal rights
(whatever they might be).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">So perhaps you should revise your claims, or at least reconsider them.</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-90970839383087048292019-01-29T14:42:00.000+05:302019-01-29T14:42:27.752+05:30Anatomy of a Murder<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Humans kill each other all the time. This is not a special or unique attribute. Many kinds of animals kill their own. <br /><br />But humans also hate killing each other. In this again, we are not unique. Many kinds of animals will not kill their own, and mourn deeply if they accidentally do. <br /><br />In some societies everybody had a license to kill. In others it was a privilege and responsibility vested only with the state and its limbs – the nobility, the army, the judiciary and sometimes, the clergy. Anybody who did not belong to one of these institutions and still dared to strike upon their neighbour became a murderer. <br /><br />But in separating murder as a crime from the killing of humans in battle, sacrifice or punishment, we encounter a third impulse which is perhaps unique to humans – the need to emotionally and rationally justify the killing of our own. <br /><br />This impulse may simply be an expression of our general need for rationalising things. Or it may stem from the cognitive dissonance that occurs when we try to reconcile our innate bloodlust with our innate empathy. <br /><br />Regardless, as a result of this impulse, the plain act of killing a fellow human being does not determine the morality of a person. Whether it be stories or real life, killers of any kind and creed can be found acceptable, and even heroic. <br /><br />This phenomenon may or may not extend to transhuman/humanoid characters, be they victim or perpetrator. <br /><br />A stunning number of classical heroes and deities are renowned and prolific killers of demons, ogres, giants and other sentient non-human humanoid beings. Modern heroes likewise kill zombies and aliens and suchlike with impunity. <br /><br />The same courtesy is sometimes extended to vampires or the occasional alien who are treated sympathetically despite their human bodycount. <br /><br />But what does all this mean? <br /><br />I think it means that we humans are discerning creatures, and we do not consider all similar actions equivalent. That a human life has been lost is not the only point. The motive, the process and the circumstances all matter to us. <br /><br />Detractors of this point of view claim that such thinking results from, and results in bigotry. That in judging one death to be a tragedy, and another to be a necessity, we effectively claim that some lives are worthier than others. <br /><br />They are not wrong. <br /><br />The same kind of utilitarian view is also taken in labelling killers as honourable heroes or despicable murderers. <br /><br />Inevitably the question arises, ‘Who decides which life is worthier than another?’ The answer to this and other variants of Juvenal’s satirical question is simply, ‘whomever is in power’.
<br /><br />As I've written in my answer to <a href="https://www.quora.com/Why-should-a-God-resort-to-violence-war/answer/Ishita-Roy-9" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Why should a God resort to violence and war?</a><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The question of justification of a war is raised by four kinds of people: <ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>The current or prospective belligerents of the war, who are looking for a reason to enter, continue or exit the war. Non-combat intervention, such as through sanctions and embargoes and other forms of influence, also counts as belligerence here. Their criteria for 'justness' is mainly a matter of cost-benefit analysis. </li>
<li>The participating public, i.e. the civilian population of the belligerent countries/communities who show their indirect support to the war through funding, etc. Their criteria for 'justness' is basically ideology (patriotism is an ideology). </li>
<li>The so-called innocent bystanders, who are affected by the crossfire/aftermath despite not being active belligerents or passive participants. Their criteria for 'justness' is a sort of commonly expected corollary to the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheGoldenRule">Golden rule</a> viz. "we've hurt no one, therefore we should not be hurt by anyone". </li>
<li>The analysts who view the war either from a safe distance or in hindsight, analysts like you and me. We can judge a war by any number of criteria - morality, practicality, divine sanction, etc. etc.</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
Replace ‘war’ with ‘killing’ and you’ve got your answer. <br /><br />Nevertheless, current opinion dictates that people and fictional characters who kill others for whatever reason should at least show some hesitation or remorse for their actions in order to remain sympathetic to the audience. <br /><br />I’m not sure where I stand with that. <br /><br />I am not in any way or form, a pacifist. I do sincerely believe that killing someone is sometimes the only solution, and I applaud the people who take on this difficult job, so that the rest of us can keep our hands and conscience clean. But even so killing people is never the first solution, and that the license to kill, like other forms of power, should only be entrusted with those who truly understand the value of life. <br /><br />If at all my protagonist is required to kill, I don’t want them to be hesitant or remorseful, but to be careful and introspective, much like Captain Yoo Shi-jin of <i>DOTS</i>. </div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-29064047519604200352018-09-04T17:04:00.002+05:302018-09-05T13:38:07.184+05:30The truth about Śikhaṇḍi<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> is one of the heroes of the ancient Indic epic <i>Mahābhārata</i>. He was the Prince of <i>Pāñcāla</i>, son of King <i>Drupada</i>, and elder sibling of <i>Dhṛṣṭadyumna</i> and <i>Kṛṣṇā Draupadī</i>, conqueror of <i>Kalinga</i> (modern Odisha) and slayer of the <i>Kaurava</i> Patriarch <i>Bhīṣma</i>.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">But he is best known for being the poster child of queer characters in Indic mythology. But what kind of a queer character was he? Was he gay? Transgendered? Or something entirely different? Let’s investigate.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">In the Critical Edition of the epic, <i>Śikhaṇḍi’s </i>story starts with <i>Ambā</i>, the eldest Princess of <i>Ka<span style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222222; font-size: 14px;">ś</span>i</i>. This woman was wronged by <i>Bhīṣma</i>, and when all her attempts to avenge herself failed, she undertook great penances to invoke the God <i>Shiva</i>, taking the following oath:</span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">yatkṛte duḥkhavasatim imāṁ prāptāsmi śāśvatīm<br />
patilokād vihīnā ca<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>naiva strī na pumān iha<br />
</b>nāhatvā yudhi gāṅgeyaṁ nivarteyaṁ tapodhanāḥ<br />
eṣa me hṛdi saṁkalpo yadartham idam udyatam<br />
<b>strībhāve parinirviṇṇā puṁstvārthe kṛtaniścayā</b><br />
bhīṣme praticikīrṣāmi nāsmi vāryeti vai punaḥ</span></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">(<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 188, 4-6)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">“He for whom mine hath been this state of continuous grief, he for whom I have been deprived of the region that would have been mine if I could obtain a husband<b>, he for whom I have become neither woman nor man,</b> without slaying in battle that son of Ganga I will not desist, ye that are endued with wealth of asceticism. Even this that I have said is the purpose that is in my heart. <b>As a woman, I have no longer any desire. I am, however, resolved to obtain manhood</b>, for I will be revenged upon Bhishma. I should not, therefore, be dissuaded by you.’ Unto them she said these words repeatedly.”</span></blockquote>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">(KMG, Udyogaparva, Section CXC)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">The deity was pleased with her penance, and promised her that she would be reborn as <i>Drupada’s</i> daughter, and gain manhood shortly after birth, consequently slaying <i>Bhīṣma.</i> Meanwhile <i>Drupada</i> also had a major grievance against <i>Bhīṣma</i>, and was performing penances to gain a son who would destroy that patriarch. The great deity <i>Shiva</i> appeared in front of <i>Drupada </i>and guaranteed him that he would ‘have a daughter who would become a son’ and kill <i>Bhīṣma</i> in battle.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">Therefore when <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> (aka <i>Śikhaṇḍini</i>) was born, she was assigned female at birth and also knew herself to be female. However her parents chose to hide her true gender and presented her as a boy to the public, pinning their hopes on the divine prophecy. She was raised as a boy, with the masculine name <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i>, and the accompanying masculine gender roles and privileges.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">This charade continued until <i>Śikhaṇḍini</i> underwent puberty, at which point her parents reacted by getting her married – to the Princess of <i>Daśārṇa</i>. When the latter found out the true gender of her ‘husband’, she raised a hue and cry about it, which led her father <i>Hiranyavarma</i> to threaten total destruction upon <i>Śikhaṇḍini’s</i> kingdom.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">Finding herself at the root of this impending doom, <i>Śikhaṇḍini</i> fled to a deserted forest, contemplating suicide by starvation. Said forest happened to be home of a powerful tutelary spirit (<i>yakṣa</i> in Sanskrit), whom the public avoided at all costs.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">Turns out that the public were wrong, and our <i>yakṣa</i> host, named <i>Sthūṇākarṇa</i>, was a very kind person. When he found <i>Śikhaṇḍini</i> fasting unto death he promised to help her, and when she asked for it, he immediately agreed to a temporary gender-exchange – he would take on <i>Śikhaṇḍini’s</i> womanhood, and <i>Śikhaṇḍini</i> would be turned into a man.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">Our hero <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> then returned and presented himself to his irate father-in-law, and the latter sent a number of damsels to verify his gender. Here the text says that they ‘were pleased to report’ that <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> was indeed a man.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">Pleased as punch at this news, <i>Hiranyavarma</i> showered a vast quantity of riches on Śikhaṇḍi. And before returning to his own kingdom, he rebuked his poor daughter for telling tales. The crisis being averted, <i>Śikhaṇḍini</i> happily went back to <i>Sthūṇākarṇa’s</i> forest to give back her borrowed manhood as promised.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">Meanwhile the king of the <i>yakṣas</i>, a formidable being called <i>Kubera</i>, came to visit <i>Sthūṇākarṇa</i> with his retinue. But <i>Sthūṇākarṇa</i> was in female form, and too ashamed to show himself. <i>Kubera</i> was apprised of the situation, and he grew very angry at <i>Sthūṇākarṇa</i> for giving away his manhood, calling him all sorts of names. He cursed <i>Sthūṇākarṇa</i> with permanent womanhood, but upon reconsideration he limited the sentence to the duration of <i>Śikhaṇḍi’s</i> remaining natural life.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">So when <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> came in to keep his end of the bargain, he was informed that he was to remain a man for the rest of his life. He was not unhappy with this. He went on to study the various martial arts under <i>Droṇa</i> along with the <i>Pāṇḍavas </i>and <i>Kauravas</i> and became a great warrior, ranked as a <i>mahārathī</i>. <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> had an equally skilled son named <i>Kṣatradeva, </i>and both of them fought in the great civil war on the side of the protagonists. (<i>Droṇaparva</i>, 9, 59)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">In fact, <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> was so highly skilled that he was <i>Bhima’s</i> original choice for the position of General of the <i>Pāṇḍava </i>Army (<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 149, 29-32). He led the division of <i>Matsya</i> soldiers and fielded important attacks against such opponents as <i>Droṇa </i>and<i> Kṛpa</i>. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">Of course his greatest feat was the fulfilment of the prophecy to slay the Patriarch <i>Bhīṣma</i>. In that fateful campaign it was <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> who covered <i>Bhīṣma</i> with arrows, and here it must be clarified that <i>Arjuna’s</i> role was in fact subordinate to <i>Śikhaṇḍi’s. </i><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><i><br />
</i> <i>Bhīṣma’s</i> refusal to fight against <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> is explained in his own words thusly:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">vratam etan mama sadā pṛthivyām api viśrutam</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">striyāṁ strīpūrvake cāpi strīnāmni strīsvarūpiṇi</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">na muñceyam ahaṁ bāṇān iti kauravanandana</span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;">na hanyām aham etena kāraṇena śikhaṇḍinam</span></blockquote>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">(<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 193, 62-63)<i><o:p></o:p></i></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">“Even this is my vow, known over all the world, viz., that I will not, O son of Kuru’s race, shoot weapons upon a woman, or one that was a woman before or one bearing a feminine name, or one whose form resembleth a woman’s. I will not, for this reason, slay Sikhandin.”</span></blockquote>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">(KMG, Udyogaparva, Section CXCV)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">Clearly, <i>Bhīṣma</i> was undone by his benevolent misogyny.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span> <span style="font-family: inherit;">And finally, as an addendum to <i>Śikhaṇḍi’s</i> story, here is a comprehensive list of terminology used in the text to describe his gender situation:</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>strīpuṃsa</i>, i.e. one who was both woman and man (several places)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>strīpūrvaka</i>, i.e. man who was formerly a woman (several places)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>jajñe kanyā putratvam āgatā</i>, i.e. born a daughter but gained son-hood (<i>Adīparva</i>, 57, 104)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>yāṁ yakṣaḥ puruṣaṁ cakre</i>, i.e. woman whom the yakṣa created (turned into) a man (<i>Adīparva</i>, 57, 104)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>sutā jajñe daivāc ca sa punaḥ pumān</i>, i.e. daughter who was born again as a man by the work of fate (<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 49, 32)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>strīpuṁsoḥ puruṣavyāghra yaḥ sa veda guṇāguṇān</i>, i.e. O tiger among men, he knows the good and bad qualities of both womanhood and manhood (<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 49, 32)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>kanyā bhūtvā pumāñ jāto</i>, born a woman and reborn a man (<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 169, 20)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>strīpumāṁs te bhaviṣyati</i>, i.e you will have a child who will be both woman and man, <i>Shiva’s </i>prophecy to <i>Drupada </i>(<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 189, 5)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>kanyā bhūtvā pumān bhāvī</i> i.e. I will have a daughter who will become a man, <i>Drupada </i>describing <i>Shiva’s </i>prophecy to his wife (<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 189, 7)</span></li>
</ol>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Compared to all this <i>Sthūṇākarṇa</i> is described as:</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>strīsvarūpavān </i>i.e. a man with female form (<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 193, 37)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>evam eva bhavatvasya strītvaṁ </i>i.e. may he retain this womanhood, <i>Kubera’s </i>curse (<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 193, 41)</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><i>strīlakṣaṇaṁ cāgrahīḥ pāpakarman</i> i.e. one who accepted female attributes that were foreign and unbecoming to him (<i>Udyogaparva</i>, 193, 42)</span></li>
</ol>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">If you have been following the story keenly, you should have noticed a couple of things</span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -18.0pt;">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"><span style="font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;"> </span></span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Ambā</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> was not dysphoric, she merely sought manhood in order to qualify as a warrior and defeat her enemy in battle</span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"><span style="font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;"> </span></span><span style="text-indent: -18pt;">By all indications </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Śikhaṇḍini</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">identified</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> herself as being female, even though she </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">presented</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> as male due to the actions of her parents.</span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"><span style="font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;"> </span></span><span style="text-indent: -18pt;">Her sex/gender transition was to be strictly temporary. During the period of its effectiveness, it may be assumed (but never confirmed) that </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Hiranyavarma’s</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> agents had sex with </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Śikhaṇḍi</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> in order to ascertain his gender. Yet, immediately after this event she is described as female in the text.</span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"><span style="font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;"> </span></span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Śikhaṇḍi</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> can only be said to properly start identifying himself as being male only after his magical transition is confirmed as being permanent. For all this, he does not seem to miss his previous gender. </span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"><span style="font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;"> </span></span><span style="text-indent: -18pt;">My description uses female pronouns for </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Śikhaṇḍini</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> and male pronouns for </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Śikhaṇḍi</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;">, whereas I refer to </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Sthūṇākarṇa</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> as male even after his transition. This convention is lifted directly from the Sanskrit original.</span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"><span style="font-size: 7pt; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal;"> </span></span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Śikhaṇḍi</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> is described as being content with his gender at all times, whereas poor </span><i style="text-indent: -18pt;">Sthūṇākarṇa</i><span style="text-indent: -18pt;"> is severely ashamed after his transition</span></span></li>
</ul>
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -18.0pt;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -18.0pt;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -18.0pt;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -18.0pt;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -18.0pt;">
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Finally, when we compare the actual terminology used to describe <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i> and <i><u>Sthūṇākarṇa</u></i> in the text, it becomes clear that <b><i>Śikhaṇḍi is not transgendered but genderfluid, and it is Sthūṇākarṇa who was condemned to involuntary transsexuality.</i></b></span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><b><i></i></b><br />
</span> </div>
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Notice that we have only been talking about the gender attributes of <i>Śikhaṇḍi</i>. What about his sexual orientation? Did it change with his gender?</span><br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">The correct answer is that we do not know. Yes he did father a son later, but performing heterosexual acts is not a guarantee of heterosexuality. <o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">Other examples exist, such as that of King <i>Bhaṅgāśvana</i>, who fathers 100 sons as a man, and then is magically transformed into a woman by <i>Indra</i>. Consequently in this female form she gives birth to 100 other sons, fathered by a forest-dwelling sage. In this case, the former King had not only performed heterosexual sex in both forms, she later expressly claimed that she gained more pleasure as a female heterosexual, preferring to stay female forever. (<i>Anuśāsanaparva</i>, 120)<o:p></o:p></span><br />
<span style="font-family: inherit;"><br />
</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-family: inherit;">When we take all such sources in aggregation we conclude that sexual roles were considered part of the gender role and hence gender identity, and <b><i>that the notion of sexuality</i></b> i.e. that a person is permanently predisposed to be attracted to persons of one or more particular gender –<b><i> is not recognised by Indians either in our texts or practices.</i></b></span><o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-78572587723034946442017-06-05T20:09:00.000+05:302017-06-05T20:09:16.463+05:30Wonder Woman - Full review<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="MsoNormal">
As of now, Wonder Woman has a rating of 8.3 on IMDB, and a
93& fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I'm here to tell you that it thoroughly deserves a 96%
rating. But most of all, I'm going to embody my worst nightmare: I'm going to
be that nagging parent who asks, "baki ke 4% kahaan gaye?"<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
The Wonder Woman of the DCEU is a highly mature individual.
Though endued with outward youth and beauty, she was not born yesterday, and
that knowledge shows. This movie shows us, in her voice, and from her view, how
she came to be.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
We follow her, from the present, to her childhood, as she
begins narrating. We see her world being invaded, and we see her jumping at the
call. We see the reactions of the audience surrogate, as he comes to terms with
the reality of her existence. In turn, he tells her about the human condition.
Their plan to end the War to end all Wars, their choice of comrades, the
villain's reveal - each of these are executed with utter perfection of
storytelling and direction. Full marks to all of these.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Just stopping here, one could say that DC had been redeemed,
rescued from ignominy, and placed on a moral and practical pedestal way above
anything that Marvel has made thus far (except maybe Jessica Jones and Luke
Cage).<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
And then, suddenly, near the very end, the movie
inexplicably begins to resemble Captain America: The First Avenger. Uncannily
so. The namesakes have near identical endings. It is not a blunder, certainly
not unforgivable. And I will go so far (and I hope I am proved wrong), as to
say that most of the male audience would fail to see how this was to the
movie's detriment.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
But from my own POV it explains the "baaki ke 4%".<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
I loved the moment overtaken by tinnitus. If not for that
particular scene the whole movie would have been, as my sister put it,
"rubbished", by the choice of the ending. When I came out of the
theatre my immediate reaction was one of betrayal, and anger. But calming down,
I realised that Patty Jenkins (that's the director) was simply being courteous.
Far more courteous than most male filmmakers have been to us (case in point: the
Marvel series Peggy Carter. That was well executed, but alas, cancelled.)<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Coming back, at the very end the movie brings us back to the
present, showing us the Diana who had been transformed by these events.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
It is useful at this point to compare Diana of Themyscira
aka Wonder Woman with Kal-el aka Superman, especially within the DCEU. Both are
superior beings, and not human. Both have parents who say things like
"mankind doesn't deserve you", and "Maybe you should have let
them die". Both ultimately reject this advice, due to their innate
compassion, and the recognition of the simple fact that they have the ability
to protect the world. Thus, they both do all they can to help us.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Unlike Superman in the DCEU, however, Diana knows better
than to bear the burden of the world alone. She knows how to temper her mercy
with justice. She is not a martyr. And that is the single most powerful message
that the movie gives us all, men and women. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
That we should do our best. But we should not have to be
martyrs.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
A Wonder Woman movie means a lot for humanity. There is not
the slightest doubt aout it. A world in which future parents are told stories
where women are normalised, where they are neither worshipped nor demeaned, is
a world in which parents don't kill their unborn daughters, who raise their
daughters to be all they can be, and who teach their sons how to be humans, not
wannabe Gods. In telling stories that are inclusive, that represent without
tokenism, we fight the actual disease of which the oppression of women and
minorities is a symptom.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
This movie, despite its flaws, fits the bill.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Do watch it.</div>
</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-51443817229182368822016-02-20T15:54:00.004+05:302016-02-20T15:54:53.500+05:30Sita's Superpowers<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<b><i>Citations are in the format (Kanda, Sarga, Verse) and refer to the <a href="http://sanskritdocuments.org/mirrors/ramayana/valmiki.htm">Critical Edition of the Valmiki Ramayana</a>. </i></b><h2 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Assertiveness and political savvy</b></h2>
Sita was first and foremost, a Lady. This means that she was correct in etiquette and used <a href="https://www.quora.com/Is-septa-Mordane-responsible-for-Sansas-perception-or-the-lack-of-in-life/answer/Ted-Ueda">courtesy as her armour</a>, and it also means that <b>she was essentially groomed to rule over people</b>. <br />
<br />
Albus Dumbledore said in Philosopher’s Stone, “It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but a great deal more to stand up to your friends.” And Sita’s authoritative and commanding personality is demonstrated against friends and enemies alike.<br />
<br />
e.g. in (Ayodhya, 27, 3), Sita straight up taunts Rama, calling him a woman disguised as a man (स्त्रियं पुरुषविग्रहम्), because Rama refused to take her with him in exile. This would be thought a pretty big insult even in our times, but in the context of the Ramayana it was a very grievous insult, because the men of the Ramayana were simply <a href="https://www.quora.com/Did-Lord-Ram-waged-a-war-with-Ravan-to-save-Sita-or-to-kill-Ravan/answer/Ishita-Roy-9">obsessed with manliness</a> (पौरुषं).<br />
<br />
She also boldly advises Rama to not enter Dandaka (which he ignores, and therefore invites trouble), and her comeback to Rama in (Yuddha, 104) has to be heard to be believed. She also freely and generally orders Lakshmana about on multiple occasions.<br />
<br />
And of course, there’s her multiple verbal beatdowns of Ravana. My favourite: <br />
<blockquote>
त्वं पुनर्जम्बुकः सिंहीं मामिहेच्छसि दुर्लभाम्</blockquote>
<blockquote>
How can a jackal like you covet a lioness like me! (Aranya, 45, 32)</blockquote>
Sita's political savvy is also shown in at least two situations, <br />
<ol>
<li>Her handling of her kidnapping and rescue - see my<a href="https://www.quora.com/Epics-of-India/Why-did-Hanuman-not-take-Sita-with-him-when-he-visited-Lanka-in-search-of-her/answer/Ishita-Roy-9"> answer to Why did Hanuman not take Sita with him when he visited Lanka in search of her?</a> </li>
<li>Her poise in when she was sneaked outside the city limits by Lakshmana and asked to stay with the rishis (she was not banished) in (Uttara, 47):
<br /><br />यथा भ्रातृषु वर्तेथास्तथा पौरेषु नित्यदा |
<br />परमो ह्येष धर्मः स्यादेषा कीर्तिरनुत्तमा || ११||
<br />यत्त्वं पौरजनं राजन्धर्मेण समवाप्नुयाः |
<br /><b>अहं तु नानुशोचामि स्वशरीरं नरर्षभ |
</b>यथापवादं पौराणां तथैव रघुनन्दन || १२||
<br /><br />When the brothers and citizens face bad publicity such a move (separation/estrangement) is prescribed. O King (Lakshmana), when you receive (your share in the kingdom and) citizens in accordance with Dharma, (you will understand.)
O bull among men, (for my part,) <b>I will not emaciate myself </b>over the insults I've received from Rama and the citizens.</li>
</ol>
Words cannot describe the awesomeness of this response.<br />
<br />
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Magical/Spiritual powers</b></h2>
In the Ramayana (and Mahabharata) universe, spiritual merit can be used to solve problems via various applications.<br /><br />
These applications form a hierarchy as shown in this chart:<br />
<img src="https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7c803b9bdc1a14a3de5dca16f081e12b?convert_to_webp=true" /><br />
<br />Now in Sita's case, she was meritorious enough to use curses, and was able to invoke favours from Agni without external assistance.<br />
<br />
In the first case. Sita put up a blade of grass in between herself and Ravana twice - once in (Aranya, 54, 1) and another in (Sundara, 19, 3). It is implied that this was her standard behaviour whenever Ravana came to threaten/tempt her in Lanka. In (Sundara, 20, 20) she informed Ravana that she was more than capable of cursing him to oblivion.<br />
<br />
Given the usage of blades of grass as bearers/conductors of Astras in both epics, it is very likely that Sita was also planning to use the grass as conductors for her curses. Further, Ravana, despite having a track record of raping women, threatened to eat Sita rather than rape her. Given that he did not fear humans in general, the only explanation is that he took Sita's threat of cursing him fairly seriously.<br />
<br />
[In (Aranya, 54, 19) Sita says that she does not wish to defend her body against imprisonment, injury and death. This is misinterpreted to point out that Sita was not willing to use a curse to defend herself. However in the last line of this verse Sita specifically says that she cannot tolerate dishonour - taken as a whole the verse means that "I do not care if you hurt my body but if you try to dishonour me I will not take it lying down."
<br />
<br />
Dr Pattanaik grievously misinterprets this same verse as "I am not my body. I will never ever be violated." Not only is this completely contrary to Sita's words, it is horrifically disrespectful to actual survivors of rape and abuse.]<br />
<br />
In the second case, Sita invokes the favour of Agni so that fire did not hurt either Hanuman (Sundara, 51) or herself (Sundara, 53) and (Yuddha, 104-6). See also <a href="https://www.quora.com/Did-Lord-Ram-waged-a-war-with-Ravan-to-save-Sita-or-to-kill-Ravan/answer/Ishita-Roy-9"><b><i>The episode with Agni and Sita</i></b></a><b><i>. </i></b>On a completely unrelated note, such invocation of favour from a devata/asura is a technically known as Theurgy.</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com12tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-31732516765727385832016-01-29T03:34:00.000+05:302016-01-29T03:48:50.776+05:30How Karna was misinterpreted<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="text-align: left;">
<b><i>This post is a companion to<a href="https://www.quora.com/Mahabharata-Hindu-epic/Why-is-Karna-so-overrated/answer/Ishita-Roy-9" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> my answer to Mahabharata (Hindu epic): Why is Karna so overrated?</a></i></b></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<br /></div>
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Karna's conversation with Krishna - Udyoga Parva, Chapters 138-141</b></h2>
This group of chapters is titled कर्णोपनिवादपर्व (Karna Upanivada Parva), which means "The failed reconciliation with Karna".<br />
<br />
In chapter 138, Krishna Vasudeva bluntly reveals Karna's parentage, tells him that the he is in fact a Pandava, the Pandava birthright is his, the other Pandavas, Draupadi, and their sons and kin were ready to do his bidding, and that he should switch sides pronto.<br />
<br />
Here Karna's reply is misinterpreted.<br />
<br />
Karna uses the word अभिजानामि (<i>abhijanami</i>) which KMG mistranslates as "I know". It actually means "I recognize". The context being that this is the first time Karna has learnt of his true parentage from any source. KMG's translation bungles that up - makes it look like Karna always knew his parentage. It also makes it sound like Karna is actually clairvoyant, which he is not.<br />
<br />
So the rest of the conversation reads as follows:<br />
<ol>
<li>Karna realizes that Krishna is speaking in good faith, and accepts Vasudeva's words and interpretations as the truth</li>
<li>He recognizes the logic behind his being a Pandava and regrets having humiliated his brothers (but says nothing of Draupadi), but does not recognize them as family</li>
<li>He recognizes the Sutas and Dhartarashtras as his true family</li>
<li>He recognizes Krishna's might as kingmaker (not as God) and realizes that his and the Kauravas' defeat and death is inevitable, but that does not faze him</li>
<li>He says that he was born for the destruction of the earth, along with Shakuni and the sons of Dhritarashtra and he is dedicated to that purpose</li>
<li>To that end, he likens the forthcoming civil war to a massive sacrifice for the cleansing of the earth, and sees Duryodhana as its <i>yajamana </i>(performer) and his own inevitable death as the beginning of the second round of said sacrifice</li>
<li>If nothing else, he is dedicated to eradicating Arjuna</li>
</ol>
And here's where there's a difference of opinion. What is Karna saying? Is he <br />
<ol>
<li>an <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OmnicidalManiac">Omnicidal Maniac</a> who is trying to destroy the world (<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ApocalypseHow/Class3A">Class 3a / Apocalypse How</a>) out of pure <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoMacGuffinNoWinner">envy
</a>OR</li>
<li>a <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NecessarilyEvil">self-aware necessary villain</a> who entreats Krishna Vasudeva to let him do his job
OR</li>
<li>an avatar of a destructive natural force which is <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AboveGoodAndEvil">Above Good and Evil</a>
OR</li>
<li>combinations thereof</li>
</ol>
The text itself goes with options a and c, implying that Karna and Shakuni are manifestations of <a href="https://www.quora.com/Epics-and-folklore-of-India/Why-did-Karna-go-to-hell-after-he-died-fighting-the-battle-in-Kurukshetra/answer/Ishita-Roy-9">Time the destroyer</a>. Everybody and the grandfather Himself (Prajapati) says this over and over again - only they use the words Destiny and Time directly.<br />
<br />
It is important here to understand that Time's destructive nature is <b>not necessary, it is natural.</b> In the sense that <b><i>one can't fight it, it's inevitable, but one is not expected to help its cause. Out of envy and other adharmic tendencies, Karna has willingly chosen to help this cause.</i></b><br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>Contrast this with Rama of the Ramayana who realizes that destiny has sent grief his way, but as a man (human and male) it is his duty to fight fate (and time) anyway.</b><br />
<br />
This is why choosing option b here leads to some interesting and erroneous conclusions regarding Karna being an <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain">anti-villain</a>, <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NobleDemon">noble demon</a>, etc.<br />
<hr />
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Karna's conversation with Kunti -</b><b> Udyoga Parva, </b><b>Chapters 142 - 144</b></h2>
Here we find some interesting facts<br />
<ol>
<li>Kunti recognizes that Karna is adharmic, and that he needs redemption</li>
<li>Kunti asks him to make peace with his brothers and rescue their (combined) birthright from the clutches of Duryodhana et. al.</li>
<li>Karna hears from his father Surya, but disregards him</li>
<li>Karna flat-out declares Kunti as "the woman who never cared" and refuses to see her or her other children as family</li>
<li>Nevertheless, Karna voluntarily promises that he would not hurt Yuddhishthira, Bhima or the twins. Kunti doesn't ask him to, he just does</li>
</ol>
Why? Is this generosity, arrogance or pragmatic focus?<br />
<br />
Earlier in Chapter 108 of the Adiparva we are told that he never refuses supplicants who come to him during his morning prayers. Kunti arrives at exactly this dedicated time. <b>Yet he refuses her actual request, in essence breaking his much-lauded habit and going against his alleged reputation as a </b><b><i>danaveera.</i></b><br />
<br />
So, options:<br />
<ol>
<li>this promise was an attempt to salvage his philanthropy cred without actually sacrificing his real interests</li>
<li>he did regret humiliating the Pandavas (except Arjuna) as he said in <i>Chapter 139</i> and this was his way of repenting</li>
<li>he (correctly) realized that the 4 he was sparing were not a threat to him</li>
<li>His main contention was with Arjuna alone and he did not want to waste his energies on the other 4</li>
<li>combinations thereof</li>
</ol>
The text itself supports all of the above.<br />
<br />
Regardless, many people do misinterpret this as genuine unselfish generosity, which is a trait that Karna never actually exhibits anywhere in the Mahabharata.<br />
<hr />
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
<b>Yuddhishthira's grief for Karna - various</b></h2>
In <i>Chapter 108 of the Adiparva, </i>we the audience learn about Karna's real parentage.<br />
<b>But the Pandavas and Kauravas and even Karna did not know that. Because nobody told them.</b><br />
<br />
In <i>Chapter 119 of the Adiparva, </i>the Pandavas and Kunti learn that Duryodhana poisoned Bhima. We the audience learn about Karna being one of its masterminds.<br />
<b>But the Pandavas and Kunti did not know that. Because nobody told them.</b><br />
<br />
In the Ghoshayatra Parva, Chapter २३२, Yuddhishthira advised his brothers to join him in rescuing Duryodhana and <i>his </i>brothers (who were justly and soundly defeated and imprisoned by Gandharvas). <br />
<br />
Reading the rest of this Parva, we the audience learnt that this episode actually brought the Kauravas very very close to giving up on their hostilities with the Pandavas. In fact, if it were not for Karna and Shakuni's actions at that precise point, the great and bloody civil war would not have happened.<br />
<b>But the Pandavas did not know that. Because nobody told them</b><br />
<br />
When Krishna Vasudeva confronted Karna with his past crimes in <i>Chapter 67 of the Karna Parva</i>, he only talked about his atrocious behaviour during the game of dice, because<b> even Krishna Vasudeva did not know the full extent of Karna's villainy - because he was not omniscient and nobody told </b><b><i>him</i></b><b>.</b><br />
<br />
And then comes <i>Chapter 27 of the Stri Parva</i>, when Kunti finally breaks her silence, and whispers her secret to the Pandavas (and only them), asking them to perform Karna's funeral rites. <b>After the reveal of Karna's parentage, Yuddhishthira alone grieves for Karna.</b><br />
<br />
In the very next chapters (1-6), which fall in the <i>Shanti Parva</i>, Yuddhisthira learned the secret of Karna's life story from Narada. Narada explained how Karna hated the Pandavas from day one, and how he used his childhood friends, the sons of Dhritarashtra, to further his own agenda of envy.<br />
<br />
Narada explained how every single effort on Karna's part was born from his hatred of the Pandavas, especially Arjuna, and his greed for fame and greatness. Because of the gross impurity and baseness of his motives, he naturally encountered curses and other obstacles. Narada advised Yuddhishthira to not grieve for this brother, because despite all wickedness he was a great kshatriya and died in fair battle.<br />
<br />
Kunti too reiterated how she and Surya had on multiple occasions tried to bring Karna back to the path of dharma, but had failed and given him up for a lost cause.<br />
<br />
KMG's sources were on point in these chapters, and Narada's and Kunti's narration can be read in English here: <a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a001.htm">Santi Parva: Rajadharmanusasana Parva: Section I</a> to <a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a006.htm">VI</a> <br />
<br />
In these and further chapters of the <i>Shanti Parva</i>, Yuddhishthira expressed the following sentiments:<br />
<ol>
<li>He marvelled at the sheer magnitude of trouble Karna had caused them, and grieved for the lost opportunity of having Karna on his side, in addition to Arjuna
<br /><br />तेन मे दूयतेऽतीव हृदयं भ्रातृघातिनः |कर्णार्जुनसहायोऽहं जयेयमपि वासवम् ||३८||
<br />My heart is sorely wounded by that act of fratricide. If I had both Karna and Arjuna by my side I could have conquered even Indra.
</li>
<li>He revealed that despite witnessing Karna's atrocities at the game of dice, he was mysteriously pacified by the sight of Karna. Further:
<br /><br /> यदा ह्यस्य गिरो रूक्षाः शृणोमि कटुकोदयाः |
सभायां गदतो द्यूते दुर्योधनहितैषिणः ||४०|| <br /> तदा नश्यति मे क्रोधः पादौ तस्य निरीक्ष्य ह |
कुन्त्या हि सदृशौ पादौ कर्णस्य इति मतिर्मम ||४१||
सादृश्यहेतुमन्विच्छन्पृथायास्तव चैव ह |
कारणं नाधिगच्छामि कथञ्चिदपि चिन्तयन् ||४२||<br />Even as I heard the harshness and fury born of bitterness in his voice as he spoke in favour of Duryodhana in that gathering, having stared at his feet my anger abated instantly. It seemed to me like Karna's feet resembled Kunti's feet. I tried to enquire about the cause of this resemblance to Kunti by various means, but was never able to obtain an answer.
</li>
<li>He regretted that he had caused the slaughter of many of his kin, including Karna, in order to obtain sovereignty. To that end, he was horrified by his actions, and fully prepared to renounce the world and starve to death. Everybody else (correctly) opposed this line of thinking </li>
</ol>
Further, by the time we reach the <i>Swargarohana Parva</i>, we see that the extremely patient and forgiving Yuddhishthira has nothing but bitterness left for Duryodhana, whereas he now saw Karna as his wayward (and prodigal) brother, and was extremely pained when he saw Karna in hell.<br />
<br />
But what does this mean?<br />
<b><br />We can see that Yuddhishthira was ignorant/dismissive of Karna's crimes, so he wouldn't have expected to see him in hell. Also, we can see that he was more concerned about having killed a </b><b><i>brother </i></b><b>rather </b><b>than just another opponent. That said, is Yuddhishthira's grief a consequence of his own gentle nature or an indication that Karna deserved redemption? </b><br />
<br />
Vyasa confirms the former hypothesis. He says:<br />
<blockquote>
एकं हत्वा यदि कुले शिष्टानां स्यादनामयम् |
कुलं हत्वाथ राष्ट्रं वा न तद्वृत्तोपघातकम् ||१९||
अधर्मरूपो धर्मो हि कश्चिदस्ति नराधिप |
धर्मश्चाधर्मरूपोऽस्ति तच्च ज्ञेयं विपश्चिता ||२०||
तस्मात्संस्तम्भयात्मानं श्रुतवानसि पाण्डव |
...
त्वं तु शुक्लाभिजातीयः परदोषेण कारितः |
अनिच्छमानः कर्मेदं कृत्वा च परितप्यसे ||२५||<br />
If a clan can be saved by the slaughter of an individual, or a country saved by slaughtering a family, then such slaughter is not a sin. O king, sometimes dharma appears as adharma and vice versa, but the knowledgable can distinguish between them. O learned one, be you consoled by such knowledge... O noble one, your hand was forced by the mistakes of others, you did (wage war etc.) unwillingly and even having done it you torment yourself [as befits your nobility].</blockquote>
Every learned person in the Mahabharata speaks of Karna's sins, but not one of them speaks about his redemption. The rest of the Pandavas don't even waste a single breath mourning for Karna. The fact that Karna is found seated/merged with Surya at the end also draws no comment.<br />
<b><br />So any sane person would logically conclude that Karna was a garden variety bad guy who was mourned by the overly noble hero. Right?</b><br />
<br />
And yet it is here that we find the greatest example of <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlternativeCharacterInterpretation">Alternative Character Interpretation,</a> namely <b>that Yuddhishthira's "</b><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LoveRedeems"><b>love</b></a><b>" for his brother would have </b><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LoveRedeems"><b>redeemed</b></a><b> Karna, and Yuddhishthira's grief is the result of guilt </b><b>at his inability to</b><b> do so.</b><br />
<br />
(full disclosure: I usually subscribe to this kind of thinking)<br />
<br />
Does this sound familiar? It should, because it is the exact same attitude that Thor of Marvel Cinematic Universe apparently harbours for his (adopted) brother Loki. <br />
<br />
(disclaimer: MCU Thor, Loki, etc. are not to be confused with the actual Norse deities)<br />
<br />
The argument here is that Thor has great and nearly unwavering love for Loki as a person (which is true and heartwarming), Loki himself loved his (adopted) mother Freya and therefore Loki is worthy of redemption.<br />
<br />
The problem is that we cannot readily extend this argument to Yuddhishthira, because he is not shown as feeling such warmth towards Karna <i>as a person</i>, and Karna clearly felt nothing but hate for the whole Pandava/Vrishni consortium.<br />
<br />
Also, the argument itself may not be logical.</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com11tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-10347797319358652612015-10-18T23:54:00.001+05:302015-10-25T13:27:36.268+05:30Chapter 2: Pillars of the Indras of the West<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Cultures around the world have traditionally worshipped tall things, whether they be trees, mountains or monoliths. Of particular note is the worship of un-carved wooden pillars or poles, which seems to have had a peculiar connection to specific deities.<br />
<div>
<b><br /></b></div>
<div>
<b>Indra's Flagpole, aka <i>Mahendradhwaja </i>described in the <a href="https://aayanam.quora.com/Indra-and-Thor-of-Pillars-Poles-and-Posts-Part-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">previous chapter</a>, and the <a href="https://www.quora.com/Why-is-nothing-said-about-temple-worship-in-Mahabharata-and-Ramayana-as-we-see-today/answer/Ishita-Roy-9" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chaityas described in the epics</a> share the following characteristics with these international sacred pillars/poles.</b><br />
<div>
<ol>
<li>They are meant to represent sacred trees (In Indra's case it is a bamboo plant)</li>
<li>They are originally made of wood</li>
<li>They are not modified with carvings of humans, animals etc</li>
<li>They are worshipped as a standalone representation of a deity</li>
<li>They are used as symbols of royal authority</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div>
Most of these are found in the Levant and surrounding regions, stretching to Egypt in the south, Italy in the west, Turkey in the north, and Iraq in the east.</div>
<div>
<table style="width: 100%;"><tbody>
<tr> <td style="text-align: center;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.britishmuseum.org/images/ps203677_l.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="Source: British Museum online collection site:http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/me/s/stone_panel,_nw_palace-8.aspx" border="0" src="http://www.britishmuseum.org/images/ps203677_l.jpg" height="200" title="" width="200" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Assyrian </a>sacred pillar on wall panel, dubbed "Tree of Life" by modern scholars,<br />
Nimrud, Iraq, <b>883-859 BCE</b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</td> <td><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/proxy/AVvXsEjTAUsG90zpF99QoyzqJdifmI5aH0cvjbeZtUNB5x8L95r5Oict5WIX-T9qCiQVfqWFzOG9-c_Yy-sRH-1mHyu3V3ViVszDFU9_Ei8XsM4Zk3xPcnSW5EwogXrIPGIZEMLHZ1zYO-AfmtGL1XAAsvJr20TIJtcqH7-bT65M8sQmCyLuLfgbvvk11d4GvrGKfI1u7bCTg_WXMc5K=" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt=""Abydos seti 16" by Jon Bodsworth - http://www.egyptarchive.co.uk/html/seti_abydos_16.html. Licensed under Copyrighted free use via Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Abydos_seti_16.jpg#/media/File:Abydos_seti_16.jpg" border="0" class="qtext_image" src="http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8a56f2746dd21516a9f099a3c7788906?convert_to_webp=true" detected="http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8a56f2746dd21516a9f099a3c7788906?convert_to_webp=true" height="131" npdkey="ifw7vpr90.5wvysjomsmnjc3di" style="animation-duration: 0.001s; animation-name: insQ_100; border: 0px; display: block; max-width: 100%;" title="" width="200" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djed" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Djed </a>pillar, ancient Egyptian religious symbol on wall panel, possibly connected to the Assyrian symbol on the left,<br />
Abydos, Egypt, <b>1290 to 1279 BCE</b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</td> <td><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Lions_Gate_detail.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><img alt="Source: "Lions Gate detail" by Orlovic - Own work. Licensed under GFDL via Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lions_Gate_detail.JPG#/media/File:Lions_Gate_detail.JPG" border="0" height="156" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Lions_Gate_detail.JPG" title="" width="200" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Detail of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_Gate" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lion Gate</a>, showing Pillar-Baetyl (<a href="https://books.google.co.in/books?isbn=1108060919" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">sacred pillar</a>) flanked by two lionesses, <br />
Mycenae, Greece, <b>1350 BCE</b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</td> </tr>
<tr> <td><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJvKtux6NWwqWRouyBvxjROqwFLFXQraTXSbZrvhgkl85r9peMTV7HW7awSyFwj6bIWpJhyphenhyphenbKSUEbJkQGQEKj7EN3rW72y7N7Z6_mXMSZNXdw_NsDDkHToGnKJjOOKTBS3aIS4W0TjESA/s1600/Motya095a.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="Source: Museo Whitaker, Motya site:http://www.motya.info/ViewGallery.php?cat=506" border="0" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgJvKtux6NWwqWRouyBvxjROqwFLFXQraTXSbZrvhgkl85r9peMTV7HW7awSyFwj6bIWpJhyphenhyphenbKSUEbJkQGQEKj7EN3rW72y7N7Z6_mXMSZNXdw_NsDDkHToGnKJjOOKTBS3aIS4W0TjESA/s200/Motya095a.jpg" title="" width="99" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Stele with group of Pillar-Baetyls (sacred pillars), <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Carthage" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Punic religion</a>,<br />
Nora, Italy, <b>9th-8th Century BCE</b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<br /></td><td><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.livius.org/a/1/anatolia/assyrian_treaty_antakya.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img alt="Source: http://www.mesopotamiangods.com/category/assyria/page/2/" border="0" src="http://www.livius.org/a/1/anatolia/assyrian_treaty_antakya.JPG" height="200" title="" width="150" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Stele showing an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah_pole" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Asherah Pole</a>, sacred to semitic Goddess.<br />
Antakya, Turkey, <b>810-783 BCE</b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
</td> <td style="text-align: center;"><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjw5p-6wxm5CNIQHdmvdZKsWaFedRk_EM-f9fhjvpmVxn98CoeSjAkg_4U5lXf08dadmEUOdYW7Ltu10iKeHaFaNYCmJ2LPdISarEMLUe5zigsSL89TI0cp4rtVOFAnEvhZbQVqrgk_UZA/s1600/Aphrodite.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="131" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjw5p-6wxm5CNIQHdmvdZKsWaFedRk_EM-f9fhjvpmVxn98CoeSjAkg_4U5lXf08dadmEUOdYW7Ltu10iKeHaFaNYCmJ2LPdISarEMLUe5zigsSL89TI0cp4rtVOFAnEvhZbQVqrgk_UZA/s200/Aphrodite.jpg" width="200" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Reverse of Coin struck by Roman Emperor Macrinus, showing conical pillar dedicated to Aphrodite in a temple courtyard,<br />Byblos, Lebanon, <b>217-218 CE</b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
</td> </tr>
</tbody></table>
As you can see, these examples cover many different civilizations, including the Egyptian, Phoenician/Punic, Assyrian, Canaanite (Semitic), Mycenaean, and Roman. <b>However, these particular examples are of unique importance because they are unrelated to the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Proto-Indo-European religion</a>, as currently hypothesised.</b><br />
-<br />
<br />
Oddly enough, the only other descendants of the PIE religion known to have similar pillars/poles are both of Germanic origin, and the pillar/pole motifs are from the Middle Ages <b>(441 CE onwards)</b>.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons#Religion" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Saxon religion</a> was extant primarily in the regions currently governed by Germany, France, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Belgium, Denmark and Britain. Although related to the religion of their northern cousins, the Scandinavians, they had some distinct practices and motifs, which include the one known as <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irminsul" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Irminsul</a>.<br />
<br />
The name Irminsul means "great/mighty/rising pillar" in the Old Saxon language, and its oldest extant description calls it a defoliated tree trunk. It fits all the characteristics listed above, but the deity associated with it is not known. Unfortunately, all of the descriptions of this pillar/pole are second-hand, and written by people who destroyed or sought to destroy such pillars.<br />
<br />
In fact, the only pictorial representation of the Irminsul comes from a Christian sculpture in Externsteine, Germany, in which the Irminsul is being bent/broken by the Christian Cross.<br />
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2014/07/irminsul-externsteine.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/files/2014/07/irminsul-externsteine.jpg" height="213" width="320" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The bent/broken T-shaped structure on the right is alleged to be a representation of the Irminsul. The column above it is the foot of the Christian Cross. The relief was carved into the natural rock formations in Externsteine, Germany around the <b>ninth-twelfth century CE.</b></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
The <a href="http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/mythology/religion/text/practices.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Viking religion</a> equivalent was the practice of venerating both actual trees and wooden pillars.<br />
<br />
Different deities had different trees dedicated to them, and typically all prayers, sacrifices and important social ceremonies would be undertaken under these trees. Of particular note is the oak tree, dedicated to <b>Thor</b>.<br />
<br />
Trees dedicated to Thor were to be found all over the Germanic territory, from Iceland in the north to continental Germany itself. Two such trees were made famous in literature:<br />
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li>In the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lsunga_saga">Völsunga saga</a>, an oak tree called <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnstokkr">Barnstokkr</a> grows inside King Völsung's hall, into which Odin thrusts a sword, thereby kicking off the plot of the saga.</li>
<li><i>Life of Saint Boniface</i>, a biography written in 8th century CE speaks of a tree known simply as <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donar%27s_Oak" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Donar's Oak</a> (Donar is German for Thor), which was dramatically cut down by the eponymous Saint, in order to convert all the locals to Christianity.</li>
</ol>
<div>
Further, in Iceland, a pair of wooden pillars known as <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96ndvegiss%C3%BAlur" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Öndvegissúlur </a>were to be found, which were dedicated to some deity and were used as symbols of royal authority. These were also immortalised in saga literature.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Some tenuous connection may also be made to an artefact called <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sampo </a>from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_mythology" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Finnish Mythology</a> (which is a non-Germanic descendant of PIE religion). Sampo has been identified by some scholars as a representation of the pillar/world tree which holds up the sky-dome (a similar pillar is spoken of in the Rig Veda).</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://docs.creiden.com/circleflip/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/divider.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://docs.creiden.com/circleflip/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/divider.jpg" height="23" width="400" /></a></div>
Three things are immediately noticeable about this ancient trend of worshipping royal wooden poles/pillars.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
<b>First, the timeline.</b> The non-PIE poles/pillars are more or less contemporaneous with the accounts of <i>Mahendradhwaja </i>and <i>chaityas </i>in the Indic epics. Saxon religion may have existed as far back as 2nd century BCE, and Norse religion may also have been Pre-Roman in origin. Finnish religion, insomuch as it is relevant, may also have been Pre-Roman.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
<b>Second</b>, the <b>obvious connections of these pillars/poles with both lightning and royal authority. </b>It is common knowledge that tall trees/poles attract lightning. Therefore it would have been obvious for ancient people to imagine that the denizens of heaven would send lightning down to the poles and thereby exercise their authority on the mortal world. Thus, the most powerful deity(ies) of each of these cultures was associated with a pillar/pole.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Because the concept of royal authority was closely related to divine authority in all of these cultures, it is not surprising that these pillars also became symbols of royal authority.</div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
<b>Third, the unique case of the pillar in the temple of Aphrodite/Adonis in Byblos. </b></div>
<div>
Byblos is one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world, and it was founded by the Phoenicians. The temple was also of Phoenician origin, and originally dedicated to the Goddess Astarte. By the time the city came under Roman control, <b>it became associated with Aphrodite, who was of mixed ancestry - i.e. with Phoenician, Semitic and Indo-European attributes.</b></div>
<div>
<br /></div>
<div>
Consequently, this pillar had more in common with the <i>Mahendradhwaja </i>than the others, viz. it was</div>
<div>
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li>associated with fertility</li>
<li>placed in a temple courtyard</li>
<li>part of an annual festival</li>
</ol>
<div>
Not only that, but this pillar was still being worshipped when the <i>Mahendradhwaja </i>and others had declined, and the northern counterparts were just being established. <b>i.e. pillars such as the one in Byblos may represent the turning point in the migration of the concept towards northern Europe.</b></div>
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://docs.creiden.com/circleflip/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/divider.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://docs.creiden.com/circleflip/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/divider.jpg" height="23" width="400" /></a></div>
<b style="color: #333333; font-family: Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 21px;"><i>Thus ends the chapter describing the origin and instances of the pillars of the Western counterparts of Shatakrata Aditya, aka Indra, using pillars, poles and posts as a device.</i></b></div>
<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<!-- Blogger automated replacement: "https://images-blogger-opensocial.googleusercontent.com/gadgets/proxy?url=http%3A%2F%2Fqph.is.quoracdn.net%2Fmain-qimg-8a56f2746dd21516a9f099a3c7788906%3Fconvert_to_webp%3Dtrue&container=blogger&gadget=a&rewriteMime=image%2F*" with "https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/proxy/AVvXsEjTAUsG90zpF99QoyzqJdifmI5aH0cvjbeZtUNB5x8L95r5Oict5WIX-T9qCiQVfqWFzOG9-c_Yy-sRH-1mHyu3V3ViVszDFU9_Ei8XsM4Zk3xPcnSW5EwogXrIPGIZEMLHZ1zYO-AfmtGL1XAAsvJr20TIJtcqH7-bT65M8sQmCyLuLfgbvvk11d4GvrGKfI1u7bCTg_WXMc5K=" -->Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-7116839000926930192015-08-05T17:03:00.000+05:302015-08-05T17:03:03.264+05:30Gajānana's Ānana<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
So, I was recently asked about the ethics behind murdering an elephant in order to resurrect Gane<span class="blue">ś</span>a. During my research, this is what I found out about the true source of Gajānana's Ānana.<br />
<br />
<div class="Paragraph SCX160360309" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX160360309" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX160360309" style="background-color: inherit;">At the outset, I would like to like to clarify some things: </span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX160360309" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX160360309"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX160360309" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="EOP SCX160360309" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span></div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span class="TextRun SCX160360309" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX160360309" style="background-color: inherit;">Yes, Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX160360309" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX160360309" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a is not a Vedic deity. He is however very much an integral part of the Indic pantheon, and his cosmogony an integral part of Indic mythology. </span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX160360309" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX160360309"> </span></span><span class="EOP SCX160360309" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"> </span></li>
<li><span class="TextRun SCX160360309" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX160360309" style="background-color: inherit;">Yes, there are varying accounts of Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX160360309" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX160360309" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a's origins even within the 18 Mahapuranas, some of which may be mutually exclusive. This only serves to prove that Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX160360309" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX160360309" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a was of sufficient importance that multiple attempts were made to integrate his story into the greater continuity of Indic tradition. </span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX160360309" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX160360309"> </span></span><span class="EOP SCX160360309" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"> </span></li>
<li><span class="TextRun SCX160360309" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX160360309" style="background-color: inherit;">It is vital to remember that all these multiple stories had to adhere to the basic worldview of the Vedas in order to gain any traction among the scholars and the laity. Therefore it makes sense for us to analyze this particular account within the larger Indic tradition. </span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX160360309" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX160360309"> </span></span></li>
</ul>
<span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX160360309" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX160360309">Now most stories that involve the alleged elephant murder tend to follow this generic pattern:</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span class="TextRun SCX181067280" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX181067280" style="background-color: inherit;">Gauri created an image and gave it life. She called him सूनु (sūnu, son), and gave him a mission. In the </span><span class="SpellingError SCX181067280" style="background-color: inherit;">fulfilment</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX181067280" style="background-color: inherit;">
of that mission, the child obstructed the path of Shiva. Shiva took
exception to such obstruction, and beheaded him. His death caused untold
grief to Gauri. Moved by mercy, his own grief and that of his wife,
Shiva brought the child back to life by giving him the head of an
elephant.</span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX181067280" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX181067280"> </span></span></blockquote>
I propose that the source of that elephant head was a sacrificial animal. The following sources strengthen this claim:<br />
<br />
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX204059298" style="margin-left: 0px;">
<div class="Paragraph SCX204059298" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><b>The
act of beheading people and then restoring their lives by replacing
their heads is a recurring theme attached to Shiva by various sources.</b>
Here are some key examples:</span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="EOP SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span></div>
<ul class="BulletListStyle1 SCX204059298">
<li class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX204059298" style="margin-left: 24px;"><div class="Paragraph SCX204059298" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Daksha, who was beheaded by Shiva (or his agent), and restored to life with a sacrificial goat's head. (</span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://vedabase.net/sb/4/7/3/en"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 4 Chapter 7 Verse 3</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">, </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://vedabase.net/sb/4/7/8/en"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Verse 8</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">)</span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="EOP SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"> </span></div>
</li>
<li class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX204059298" style="margin-left: 24px;"><div class="Paragraph SCX204059298" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Hayagriva,
Shiva (impelled by Shakti) caused Vishnu to be beheaded while asleep,
and resurrected with a sacrificial horse's head so that Vishnu may </span><span class="SpellingError SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">fulfil</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"> a boon/curse. (</span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/db/bk01ch05.htm"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Devi Bhagavatam, Skanda 1, Chapter 5</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">, See </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://vedpuran.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/devi-bhagavata-purana_press.pdf"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Sanskrit </span></span></a><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://vedpuran.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/devi-bhagavata-purana_press.pdf"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">original </span></span></a><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://vedpuran.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/devi-bhagavata-purana_press.pdf"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">pages 27-32</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">)</span></span><span class="EOP SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"> </span></div>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX204059298" style="margin-left: 0px;">
<div class="Paragraph SCX204059298" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Heads
are not the only body parts of deities to be separated and replaced.
<b>Similar instances of "transplants" and are actually quite common</b></span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298">: </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="EOP SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span></div>
<ul class="BulletListStyle1 SCX204059298">
<li class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX204059298" style="margin-left: 24px;"><div class="Paragraph SCX204059298" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">In </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://www.valmikiramayan.net/utf8/baala/sarga49/bala_49_frame.htm"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Valmiki Ramayana - Baala Kanda - Sarga 49</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">, Indra receives a testicular implant from a sacrificial ram. </span></span><span class="EOP SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"> </span></div>
</li>
<li class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX204059298" style="margin-left: 24px;"><div class="Paragraph SCX204059298" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">In </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://sanskritdocuments.org/mirrors/ramayana/utf/7_uttarakanda_10.html"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Sarga 10 of the Uttarakanda</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">,
we learn that Ravana sacrificed 9 of his ten heads to Brahma and was
about to sacrifice the 10th when Brahma granted him an audience, and
restored all the heads.</span></span><span class="EOP SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"> </span></div>
</li>
<li class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX204059298" style="margin-left: 24px;"><div class="Paragraph SCX204059298" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">In Chapter ३२९ of </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://sanskritdocuments.org/mirrors/mahabharata/unic/mbh12_sa.html"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Shantiparva</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">,
Krishna Vasudeva refers to Indra's implant again, and also describes
the story of Dadhichi's sacrifice, in which the Devatas ask Dadhichi to
die and they construct the </span><span class="SpellingError SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">superweapon</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"> Vajra (Thunderbolt) from his bones.</span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="EOP SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"> </span></div>
</li>
<li class="OutlineElement Ltr SCX204059298" style="margin-left: 24px;"><div class="Paragraph SCX204059298" style="background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Segoe UI',Tahoma,Verdana,'Sans-Serif'; font-size: 6pt; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;">
<span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">In
the chapter of the Bhagavatam quoted above, various other deities and
sages receive similar implants in place of body parts destroyed by
Shiva, including a beard implant received by Sage Bhrigu, from the same
goat that gave its head to Daksha (</span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://vedabase.net/sb/4/7/5/en"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Verse 5</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">)</span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="EOP SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"> </span></div>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
<span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Clearly,
Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a's "head transplant" is not an isolated case, and as such, must
be seen in conjunction with all these other cases. </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">And the one common theme here is </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">animal sacrifice</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">.</span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Observe
that the Devatas have been uniformly portrayed in the Vedas and later
literature as being nourished by sacrifices of both herbs and animals,
as well as offerings of various body parts thereof. </span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Given this history, </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">it is not a stretch to assume that </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">the deity who is meant to be the foremost of all beings (literal meaning of </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a) would also be similarly nourished and strengthened by a sacrifice.</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">
In fact, any scholar who would pitch for Ganesha's inclusion into the
Pantheon would use this trope as proof of Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a's divinity.</span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">This theory further gains credence when we realize that </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">elephants are indeed counted among animals fit for sacrifice.</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"> The primary sources which legitimize the sacrifice of elephants are the </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalika_Purana"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Kalika Purana</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"> (</span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/rawdataupload/upload/0098/079&first=1&last=698&barcode=5990010098079"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Sanskrit original in DLI archives</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">) and </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/79973981/Ishana-Shiva-Guru-Shiva-Deva-Paddhati-Ed-by-T-Ganapati-Shastri-Part-I#scribd"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Ishana Shiva Guru Deva's Tantra Paddhati</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">. These texts date to the 10th and 12th century respectively, have important linkages to Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a worship, and predate the </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha_Purana"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"> and </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudgala_Purana"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Mudgala Purana</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">s which are the key texts related to the deity. </span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">The
Kalika Purana is related to the legends in which Gauri takes the form
of Kali when Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a is slain. In the Tantra Paddhati, we learn of bothe lephant sacrifice and Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a worship. </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://books.google.co.in/books?id=EtwtSZwyWpgC&pg=PA289&lpg=PA289&dq=kalika+purana+elephant&source=bl&ots=YhUC6YW2w-&sig=r4YdIp8EpusohzbgoKLQxa8D0Hc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBWoVChMI9pCyzpuRxwIVhHOOCh2LuA2n#v=onepage&q&f=false"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">(See also the essay by A. Parpola in </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Ritual, State, and History in South Asia</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">) </span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">In contrast we have other sources in the </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurma_Purana"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Kurma</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"> and </span></span><a class="Hyperlink SCX204059298" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varaha_Purana"><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">Varaha Purana</span></span></a><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">s,
both of which mention a demon-elephant slain/liberated by Shiva, who
thereafter wears this elephant's skin. However, the iconography
depicting this story </span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">unequivocally shows Shiva standing on top of this elephant's head</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;">. Therefore this elephant-demon cannot possibly be the source of Gane</span></span><span class="TextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="NormalTextRun SCX204059298" style="background-color: inherit;"><span class="blue">ś</span>a's head.</span></span><span class="LineBreakBlob BlobObject SCX204059298" style="font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"><span class="SCX204059298"> </span></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX204059298" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><span class="TextRun EmptyTextRun SCX181067280" style="color: windowtext; font-family: Calibri,Sans-Serif; font-size: 11pt; line-height: 18px;"></span><br />
<div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
</ul>
</div>
</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-44046494473245411012015-07-21T18:15:00.000+05:302015-07-21T18:15:00.045+05:30The Divine Paradox - Part II - The Treachery of Images<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">A Deity is more than a character in a mythological story. However, we cannot know the nature of Deity without portraying the same as a character and weaving a story around him/her/it. This is the Divine Paradox.</span></div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"></div><a name='more'></a><br />
<div style="margin: 0in;"><span id="goog_1664269233"></span><span id="goog_1664269236"></span><span id="goog_1664269237"></span><span id="goog_1664269234"></span></div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/MagrittePipe.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/MagrittePipe.jpg" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 14.6666669845581px; text-align: left;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images#/media/File:MagrittePipe.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">This is not a pipe</a>. This is an altered, scanned image of a painting of a pipe. </span></td></tr>
</tbody></table><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Humans cannot grasp unfamiliar concepts without the aid of analogies, at least in the beginning. Such is the limitation of our understanding.</span></div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">But analogies have their own limitations; for the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map-territory_relation" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">map is not the territory</a> it represents, and most analogies are not constructed with the care and accuracy of cartography.</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">Nevertheless, the map is often easier to comprehend than the vastness of the territory, and people tend to cling to analogies long after they cease to remain useful. This can have disastrous consequences, especially when the concept in question is a deity.</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">Some deities began as personifications of forces of nature. Others began as tutelary deities of a particular tribe/location. By giving name and form to impersonal phenomena, people could not only relate to them better, but they could attempt to control said phenomena through prayer, threats or bargaining.</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">Then people started weaving stories around these entities, and added more allegory and legend and what not. As time progressed, the original phenomena became less relevant, and the sentient characters created to represent them became idols in their own right. People's goals shifted from survival to salvation. And their deities evolved to fulfil these new needs.</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">Then religion became organized, and the deities and stories became instruments of social and political engineering. And the analogies came full circle. Kinda like this picture:</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web04/2011/3/19/17/ceci-nest-pas-une-lune-19125-1300571520-89.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web04/2011/3/19/17/ceci-nest-pas-une-lune-19125-1300571520-89.jpg" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 14.6666669845581px; text-align: left;"><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/ANewHope" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">This is not a moon.</a> <a href="http://www.buzzfeed.com/darthvader/ceci-nest-pas-une-lune-1d1i" target="_blank">This</a>… is complicated.</span></td></tr>
</tbody></table><div style="margin: 0in;"></div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Now one layer of allegory/analogy of dubious quality can be difficult enough. Imagine trying to make sense of several layers of such analogy, sandwiched between </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CorruptChurch" style="font-size: 11pt;">vested interest</a><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> and </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ValuesDissonance" style="font-size: 11pt;">dissonant values</a><span style="font-size: 11pt;">. That's exactly what ancient deities are to modern eyes. <b>And this, is the Divine Paradox.</b></span></div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><a href="http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-goddess-Lakshmi-always-seen-sitting-next-to-Lord-Vishnus-feet-whereas-other-goddesses-do-not-Also-what-message-does-it-give-to-society-about-womens-status-in-Hinduism/answer/Ishita-Roy-9">This answer on Quora</a> is a handy example of what happens when such deities meet modern scrutiny. Note that an allegorical interpretation of the picture was not actually warranted - I did it because</div><ol style="direction: ltr; font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11pt; margin-bottom: 0in; margin-left: 0.375in; margin-top: 0in; unicode-bidi: embed;" type="a"><li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;" value="1"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">The general consensus points to </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;">an</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> allegorical explanation.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">The general consensus points to </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;">those specific</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> allegorical explanations.</span></li>
</ol><br />
<div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">The fact that <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Allegory">allegory</a> as a device relies on public consensus does not in itself make it a <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreNotBad">bad tool</a> for communication. An effective allegory, however, is one which is recognisable, whose context endures the physical death of the author, and whose underlying analogy remains relevant/valid to readers across space and time.</div></div>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-59642875893912376402015-05-20T23:13:00.000+05:302015-05-20T23:13:34.087+05:30For the love of Krishna! The Avengers aren't the Pandavas<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><i><b>This is a detailed response to the Quora question: <a href="http://www.quora.com/Would-you-agree-if-I-say-The-Avengers-has-been-developed-on-the-lines-of-The-Mahabharata" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Would you agree if I say The Avengers has been developed on the lines of The Mahabharata?</a></b></i><br />
<br />
So recently I've come across a lot of people who feel that the Avengers are comparable to the Pandavas, such as this Gujarati parody video:<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><iframe allowfullscreen="" class="YOUTUBE-iframe-video" data-thumbnail-src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WsyPwgE9eew/0.jpg" frameborder="0" height="266" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WsyPwgE9eew?feature=player_embedded" width="320"></iframe></div><br />
All seemed well, until I encountered the above-mentioned question on Quora. I wrote an <a href="http://www.quora.com/Would-you-agree-if-I-say-The-Avengers-has-been-developed-on-the-lines-of-The-Mahabharata/answer/Ishita-Roy-9">answer</a> and went on my way. Then I got a comment on the answer, and saw the other answers on the thread.<br />
<br />
Suffice it to say, I felt that the time was ripe for an intervention.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">Character Archetypes and Original sources</h4><div style="text-align: left;">Ancient Greek historian <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dio_Chrysostom">Dio Chrysostom</a> (c. 40 - c. 120 CE) in his <a href="http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Dio_Chrysostom/Discourses/53*.html#6">Fifty-third Discourse</a> claimed that Homer's Illiad was being sung in India. Scholars are of the opinion that he was probably referring to the Mahabharata. Here's the exact quote:</div><div><blockquote class="tr_bq">For example, it is said that Homer's poetry is sung even in India, where they have translated it into their own speech and tongue. <a href="https://draft.blogger.com/null">7</a> The result is that, while the people of India have no chance to behold many of the stars in our part of the world — for example, it is said that the Bears are not visible in their country — still they are not unacquainted with the sufferings of Priam, the laments and wailings of Andromachê and Hecuba, and the valour of both Achilles and Hector: so remarkable has been the spell of one man's poetry! It even seems to me that by this power of his he has surpassed both the Sirens and Orpheus. <a href="https://draft.blogger.com/null">8</a> For in what respect is it a greater feat to cast a spell upon stones and trees and wild beasts and to make them follow than to have mastered so completely men of alien race who do not understand the Hellenic speech, men who have acquaintance with neither the poet's tongue nor the deeds of which his poem tells, but are, as I believe, simply enchanted by a lyre? Moreover, I believe that many barbarians who are still more ignorant than those men of India have heard of the name of Homer, if nothing more, though they have no clear notion what it signifies, whether animal or vegetable or something else still.</blockquote>Compare this with:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">most Avenger characters are too similar to the Pandavas to negate the possibility that they have inspired the personalities of the characters. But its not too bad if someone has created a parallel mythological people based on ours isn't it? After all its all about stories and storytelling. Indian heritage rehashed in a new avatar - not so bad at all!</blockquote>Legendary jingoism aside, what both these people have essentially observed is that epics of Homer and the Indic Mahakavyas and The Avengers used the same <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArchetypalCharacter">Archetypal Characters</a>.<br />
<br />
An archetypal character is a type of character that occurs independently in many mythologies and stories. For example, a Sun God, a Sky-Father God and a Thunder God are all archetypal deities that occur even in unrelated ancient religions.<br />
<br />
The notion of the archetypal character was made famous by Carl Jung, who posited that these universal, mythic characters—archetypes—reside within the collective unconscious of people the world over. See <a href="http://www.soulcraft.co/essays/the_12_common_archetypes.html">The 12 Common Archetypes</a> for more info.<br />
<br />
However the idea is older than Jung, and is seen both in Hellenic, Indic and Chinese philosophy as the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_temperaments">Four temperaments</a> and its counterparts, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%E1%B9%87a">Guṇa</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_Naturalists">School of Naturalists</a>. Extrapolating from these basic principles, it is easy to see that the sum total of human experience will produce a finite number of archetypal characters.<br />
<br />
In Dio Chrysostom's time, Homer's epics were atleast 800 years old, and the Mahabharata was also around for an equally long time, if not older. Dio lived after the decline of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom">Indo-Greek Kingdom</a>, and knew them and their Indian subjects only by their unflattering reputation. Even then he could correctly identify that the epics of India used archetypes similar to the Homeric epics - the noble hero with a tragic end (Achilles, Karna), the King and Queen who live to see their children destroying their race (Priam and Hecuba, Dhritarashtra and Gandhari), a great civil war triggered by the abduction/elopement of a Queen (Trojan War, Jayadratha's kidnapping of Draupadi and the Kurukshetra war), etc.<br />
<br />
And yet the existence and use of common archetypes do not necessarily prove the connections between the stories. In fact, the continued occurrence of an archetype only proves that people everywhere have a fundamental unity of thought, which may or may not be as extreme as Jung's collective unconscious.<br />
<br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">The Five-Man Band, and its alleged use in Mahabharata and Avengers</h4>So what happens when you take multiple character archetypes and put them in a team? You get something called an <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ensemble">ensemble</a>, in which the group dynamics are decided by;<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CastCalculus" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Cast Calculus</a>. And we are particularty interested in an ensemble called <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand">The Five-Man Band</a>. This trope is incredibly old and popular.<br />
<br />
Unlike the name, the characters usually consist of 4 men and 1 woman. The dynamics are described thusly:<br />
<ol style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLeader">The Leader</a> - Usually the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero">The Hero</a>. Can be a mastermind, charismatic, levelheaded, headstrong, or some combination of the four. Leads the group. </li>
<li><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLancer">The Lancer</a> - A contrast to the the Leader, who nevertheless is a part of the team. He serves to balance the Leader's strengths and weaknesses, and is the most likely to branch out on his own. Tends to be the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NumberTwo">Number Two</a> of the team. </li>
<li><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSmartGuy">The Smart Guy</a> - Usually youngest of the team, possibly also the physically weakest. As the name suggests, he is the brains of the outfit. </li>
<li><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBigGuy">The Big Guy</a> - May not necessarily be the physically strongest in the team (but usually are). He just has to be the one who, out of most duties, specializes in physical fighting. </li>
<li><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChick">The Chick</a> - She keeps the team together and balances everyone's aggression. If not explicitly female, this character will be the most in touch with their "inner woman". </li>
</ol>Occasionally the ensemble will have extra characters associated, most notably:<br />
<ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SixthRanger">The Sixth Ranger</a> – A later addition to the main team who may or may not fit in. Likely to betray the team, or to be an antagonist. </li>
<li><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorArchetype">The Mentor</a> - The advisor and/or confidante to the team. </li>
</ul><br />
<h2 style="text-align: left;">Alleged use in the Mahabharata</h2><div>Popular opinion would classify the Pandavas thusly:</div><div><ol style="text-align: left;"><li>Leader: Yuddhisthira</li>
<li>Lancer: Arjuna (also the only brother who wanders off the most)</li>
<li>Smart Guy: Designation shared by Nakula and Sahadeva</li>
<li>Big Guy: Bhimasena (duh!)</li>
<li>Chick: Draupadi (seriously, check out the trope page and tell me that doesn't describe her)</li>
<li>Sixth Ranger: Karna, literally.</li>
<li>Mentor: Krishna Vasudeva</li>
</ol><div>However, a close reading will reveal that these are not the original group dynamics of the Mahabharata.</div></div><div><br />
</div><div>The Pandavas as a group follow the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThreePlusTwo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Three Plus Two</a> dynamic, which is a subtype and precursor of the Five-Man Band. In this dynamic, the sons of Kunti form a Power Trio with the twins as the Plus Two, and Karna as The Sixth Ranger. <b>Draupadi is not a part of their dynamic because she doesn't actually participate in combat, which is an essential feature of the Chick archetype.</b></div><div><br />
</div><div>It is to be noted that the original Rig Vedic pantheon is also a Three Plus Two structure, with Indra, Mitra and Varuna as the Power Trio, with Vayu and Agni being the very heavyweight Plus Two, and Pushan (Rigvedic Surya) as the Sixth Ranger. The Mahabharata explicitly refers to this arrangement, when it refers to the Pandavas' biological fathers - Dharma(Yama), Indra and Vayu as Power Trio, the Asvin twns Nasatya and Dasra as the Plus Two and Surya as the Sixth Ranger.</div><div><br />
</div><div>Thus the Pandavas are not actually an example of the Five-Man Band.</div><br />
<h2 style="text-align: left;">Alleged use in the Avengers</h2><div>Now before we speak of the Avengers, it is important to note that there are two major versions of the team - namely the Comic Book and Cinematic Universe versions.</div><div><br />
</div><div>In the comic books, the original <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Comicbook/TheAvengers" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Avengers</a> line-up was explicitly a Five-Man Band. Nick Fury wasn't a part of this.</div><ol style="text-align: left;"><li>The Leader: <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/TheMightyThor">Thor</a> (some folks think it's Iron Man)</li>
<li>The Lancer: <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/IronMan">Iron Man</a> (the folks mentioned above put Thor in this position)</li>
<li>The Smart Guy: <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/AntMan">Ant-Man</a></li>
<li>The Big Guy: <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Comicbook/IncredibleHulk">Hulk</a></li>
<li>The Chick: <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWasp">Wasp</a></li>
<li>Sixth Ranger: <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ComicBook/CaptainAmerica">Captain America</a></li>
</ol>While the line-up was constantly changing, with the Hulk dropping out after two issues, the Avengers comics use the trope repeatedly.<br />
<div><br />
</div><div>In the Cinematic Universe, however, things change quite a bit.</div><div><br />
</div><div>In <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/TheAvengers" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Avengers</a>, the team is essentially <b>marketed </b>as a <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FourTemperamentEnsemble" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Four-Temperament Ensemble</a> of Iron Man, Bruce Banner, Captain America and Thor, with the S.H.I.E.L.D. agents Romanoff and Barton as supporting characters. Don't believe me? Here's the evidence.</div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjNtcvCWdnLiJd6hsR7MgZsGakzW1cjQh8W6WMePeuSSa0GgX6nr8wrUI9ZJWFx1DYEl_yna8OPm32hj3ij0NSb8eGyBu4xXguvK1MsCnCKXDlc7c8Vdyfj3-Nbd79QaHcD4iLHv59IEHk/s1600/WP_20141219_001.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="225" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjNtcvCWdnLiJd6hsR7MgZsGakzW1cjQh8W6WMePeuSSa0GgX6nr8wrUI9ZJWFx1DYEl_yna8OPm32hj3ij0NSb8eGyBu4xXguvK1MsCnCKXDlc7c8Vdyfj3-Nbd79QaHcD4iLHv59IEHk/s400/WP_20141219_001.jpg" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Promotional tableaux of The Avengers in Comic Con Mumbai, 2014</td></tr>
</tbody></table><div>Even if we try to force-fit the team into the Five-Man dynamic, we get this:</div><div><ol style="text-align: left;"><li>Leader: Captain America</li>
<li>Lancer: Iron Man</li>
<li>Smart Guy: Bruce Banner (to a lesser degree, Tony Stark)</li>
<li>Big Guy: Thor, then Hulk</li>
<li>Chick: Black Widow but only because she's female. Phil Coulson performs the actual function of the Chick</li>
<li>Sixth Ranger: Hawkeye (complete with temporary traitor status) and Black Widow</li>
<li>Mentor: Nick Fury</li>
</ol><div>By the time <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Avengers: Age of Ultron</a> turns up, we see this status quo heavily changing.</div></div><div><br />
</div><div>Right in the beginning, we find that Hawkeye has become the Chick, complete with white picket fence. Meanwhile Black Widow has become the Mentor/Sixth Ranger, displacing Fury, who only turns up in cameos. Stark remains the Lancer, but his Smart Guy role is a lot bigger. Thor challenges his Big Guy status, by actually turning out to be surprisingly sagacious, and arguably smarter than the designated smart guys. The only constant is Cap. Rogers.</div><div><br />
</div><div>By Act III, any remaining semblance of a Five-Man dynamic is thrown out of the window.</div><div><br />
</div><div>In the end, we have a completely different dynamic, with Cap. Rogers and Agt. Romanoff as the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ActionDuo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Action Duo</a> who are jointly leading and mentoring the next line-up.</div><br />
<h4 style="text-align: left;">Conclusion</h4><div>In case it wasn't clear enough, the Marvel people know zilch about India and Indic mythology.</div><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgxuq6wg6T_ebSutz3EOaoFYNUa0ffhKChi4P5qeuWErSGYHvpImpy4BxVyY7bBvHrd4H0ysXyz_nOyTzdDpY5TDDvrR-zzybJQbc07wJlRvX6R2uoYxDylCNctC7MIFrgg8NXCqbBLCBE/s1600/Dukan.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" height="221" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgxuq6wg6T_ebSutz3EOaoFYNUa0ffhKChi4P5qeuWErSGYHvpImpy4BxVyY7bBvHrd4H0ysXyz_nOyTzdDpY5TDDvrR-zzybJQbc07wJlRvX6R2uoYxDylCNctC7MIFrgg8NXCqbBLCBE/s400/Dukan.png" width="400" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">"Calcutta" in the Avengers. They also spelled দোকান as দ ো কান.</td></tr>
</tbody></table><table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shiva10.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shiva10.jpg" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Conflating Shiva with Indra since 1982. Thor Annual #10.</td></tr>
</tbody></table><div>The Avengers team dynamic is only superficially similar to that of the Pandavas, and this resemblance is purely because they use the same archetypes. This does not make the Pandavas the original inspiration for the Avengers in any way.</div></div></div>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-8531610857030146022015-02-10T19:50:00.000+05:302015-02-17T19:52:19.034+05:30What's in a flag? - Part II: International Attitudes<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">
Since the data used in my poll or in Quora did not account for international opinion, I ventured to make my own inquiry about the attitudes towards flags and national symbols worldwide.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Among other things that I found there was this survey by the </span><a href="http://www.reputationinstitute.com/" style="font-size: 11pt;">Reputation Institute</a><span style="font-size: 11pt;">. Funnily enough, India outranks both China and the USA in terms of national self-image, and the list itself is topped by Australia. Most importantly, note that none of the counties in that study put themselves below 50, suggesting that even with a perceived negative self-image, on average most people everywhere have a respect for their country.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidLf705eU3FzGriONi4dro1TjunxDH7KpSQYqzErjP5hm7pTG6O9kjc92GyCKeaFcwjacwqAJ227Lesklbvo0k480P-kGcfLgKHVRzbMeTXCGyVKvbpVt93djjZVKob9_Y1arhsW2IqGI/s1600/survey-of-national-pride.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEidLf705eU3FzGriONi4dro1TjunxDH7KpSQYqzErjP5hm7pTG6O9kjc92GyCKeaFcwjacwqAJ227Lesklbvo0k480P-kGcfLgKHVRzbMeTXCGyVKvbpVt93djjZVKob9_Y1arhsW2IqGI/s1600/survey-of-national-pride.jpg" height="616" width="640" /></a></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
I further analysed flag culture in two particular countries - the USA and Germany.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">
</div>
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
The USA</h2>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
The USA is probably the only place in the world where you can find this:</div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgHpiij7VH2KqSXiBGxp7kNsPB6kRYDgQxW3sdr7UcVEmbfgGeMkhX-1LV7cRIkKnZ2VKV-82697GqcuLW8to2bFrMiN8fDhGqG-EZl-EUhzrlY92ZjepVuwIovs9PZpjKgyBECcUIPI7E/s1600/209243.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgHpiij7VH2KqSXiBGxp7kNsPB6kRYDgQxW3sdr7UcVEmbfgGeMkhX-1LV7cRIkKnZ2VKV-82697GqcuLW8to2bFrMiN8fDhGqG-EZl-EUhzrlY92ZjepVuwIovs9PZpjKgyBECcUIPI7E/s1600/209243.jpg" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="color: #595959; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 9pt; text-align: left;">Source: </span><a href="http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-innocent-gestures-that-make-you-look-like-dick-overseas_p2/" style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 9pt; text-align: left;">http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-innocent-gestures-that-make-you-look-like-dick-overseas_p2/</a></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Astounding, isn't it? So I looked in their <a href="http://www.americanflags.org/docs/etiquette.jsp?pageId=0690200091781119362379544">official flag code</a>, and here are some major differences I found vs. India</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<ol style="direction: ltr; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin-bottom: 0in; margin-left: 0.375in; margin-top: 0in; unicode-bidi: embed;" type="1">
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;" value="1"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Their brand of patriotism is a mixture of fanatic yet extremely informal affection</b><br />
The kind of devotion shown to the US flag rivals the respect shown to many religious symbols worldwide. Yet the depiction of the flag is not exactly reverent - you can easily find the flag on a bikini as over a formal establishment.<br />
By contrast, Indians treat the Tricolour with far more formality.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>The US Flag code does not contain any penalties or enforcement provisions for noncompliance</b><br />
You can actually use flags as doormats or even burn them in protests without legal consequence. The concept of social conditioning or legal force does not seem to arise here.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></li>
</ol>
<h2 style="text-align: left;">
Germany</h2>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
In Germany, we see a different picture. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, the present flag was adopted on 3rd October 1990. The colours and associated symbolism however, go back to the Frankfurt Revolution of 1848, technically making it older than our Tricolour.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
And yet, as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany#1989.E2.80.93present">Wikipedia</a> says, </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
In Germany the use of the flag and other national symbols has been relatively low for most of the time since the Second World War—a reaction against the widespread use of flags by the Nazi Party and against the nationalistic furore of the Nazis in general. The flag is used primarily by official authorities on special occasions or by citizens during international sporting events.</blockquote>
Indeed, Germans make a clear distinction between being "happy to be German" and being "proud to be German. As this video (start at 3:52) shows, most Germans take the former stance.<br />
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vkt4gNbE_YE?t=3m51s" width="560"></iframe><br /></div>
<br />
<br /></div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-44535381938829488732015-02-07T19:35:00.000+05:302015-02-07T20:03:12.540+05:30What's in a Flag? - Part I: India<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">In my continuous bid to understand the world through the study of stories and storytelling, I happened to hit a particular roadblock. Said roadblock was a concept that I found seriously difficult to understand, but without which I could not proceed in my studies. </div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both;"></div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">Therefore, taking a cue from MCU villain catchphrase "Discovery requires experimentation" I decided to perform a social experiment… more like an opinion poll. <span style="font-size: 11pt;">The objective of the poll was to understand if public opinion associated a national symbol with the particular concept that I'm interested in. For my poll I chose the national flag.</span></div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"></div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">Flags and banners have a primarily military origin, serving to distinguish between sides in a battle and various other military purposes. Nevertheless, national flags are the most conspicuous national symbols used worldwide. National anthems stand at second place and national emblems are used far more sparingly, especially in public.</div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="margin: 0in;"><h1>Sources</h1></div><br />
<div id="fb-root"></div><script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_GB/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script><div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/ishitar/posts/10153312769868765" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/ishitar/posts/10153312769868765">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ishitar">Ishita Roy</a>.</div></div></div><br />
</div><div style="margin: 0in;"><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">I also included the answers (and comments) from <a href="http://www.quora.com/Why-should-we-respect-our-National-Anthem-and-National-Flag">this</a> question posed on the forum called Quora, included some downvoted comments which I nevertheless felt were relevant to my question. This brought up my total no. of data points to about 50.</div><br />
</div><h1 style="text-align: left;">Results</h1><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Here's a word cloud of the Facebook poll.</span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPPKqkrgy8a1zyubmNnNumuiLoOLam8-ThvWdIC5yZ0iBk-P6rqHOFWwdNrx7JTLmS9f383KRVbIvAdxXInD0lDH1jJH31qIfS7XxA7VGjqmMMUSKKqF7SeahiLpLrdMRFSkb6DdIz7ks/s1600/Wordle_FB_Weighted.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPPKqkrgy8a1zyubmNnNumuiLoOLam8-ThvWdIC5yZ0iBk-P6rqHOFWwdNrx7JTLmS9f383KRVbIvAdxXInD0lDH1jJH31qIfS7XxA7VGjqmMMUSKKqF7SeahiLpLrdMRFSkb6DdIz7ks/s1600/Wordle_FB_Weighted.png" height="437" width="640" /></a></div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">Here's the word cloud when I add the Quora data points</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiaw0Yh9C0kcbr6MhvTcj2zCOJy1cQbSwpGP91axx7762WZRsvrElpIB8xsG6Pzj8Hn56ZqJwHxeA78KJXUMWypb-jaApMhfcXa9V7Mx5gNsmhbWaIgTFs721H6QZRig6mCI5Due6-DEKw/s1600/Wordle_All_Weighted.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiaw0Yh9C0kcbr6MhvTcj2zCOJy1cQbSwpGP91axx7762WZRsvrElpIB8xsG6Pzj8Hn56ZqJwHxeA78KJXUMWypb-jaApMhfcXa9V7Mx5gNsmhbWaIgTFs721H6QZRig6mCI5Due6-DEKw/s1600/Wordle_All_Weighted.png" height="368" width="640" /></a></div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">Now the above graphics are made out of raw word-count. Upon more detailed analysis, all the opinions/reasons could be reduced to 9 categories ranked in order of mentions, viz</div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;"></div><ol style="direction: ltr; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin-bottom: 0in; margin-left: 0.375in; margin-top: 0in; unicode-bidi: embed;" type="1"><li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;" value="1"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Collective identity (25%)</b><br />
National symbols are useful in transcending and redefining individual identity, by giving people a sense of higher purpose. This is not about the government or its machinery, but the social cohesion of the people.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Intrinsic emotion (18%)</b><br />
People are moved by genuine filial/fraternal affection for the country and its citizens and therefore respect the national symbols spontaneously. This is best demonstrated during sporting events.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Representation of cherished values/ideals (13%)</b><br />
National symbols are designed carefully to depict the core values and heritage of the nation, and respect for the symbols is a form of understanding and internalizing those values.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Irrational (12%)</b><br />
Respecting national symbols due to any reason, especially emotional ones, is ultimately irrational. Nationalism is divisive and counterproductive, and ultimately causes more harm than good.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Obligation to the state and its machinery (10%)</b><br />
The state and its machinery deliver important services to the people in the state, including fundamental rights and security. Therefore respecting the symbols of the state is part of the social contract between the state and its people, whereby the people recognize and thank the state.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Result of Conditioning/Social Engineering (9%)</b><br />
Respect for national symbols is a learned behaviour, promoted by the state/politicians, often due to their own agenda.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Neither Respect nor Disrespect (5%)</b><br />
National symbols are to be merely acknowledged, and are not worthy of either respect or disrespect.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Enforced by Law (4%)</b><br />
In India, the </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Insults_to_National_Honour_Act,_1971"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Prevention of Insults to National Honour Act,1971</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> makes it a crime to disrespect the national flag and anthem. Hence the show of respect.</span></li>
<li style="margin-bottom: 0; margin-top: 0; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Object of (religious) devotion (4%)</b><br />
Nationalism as a type of religion, and consequently National symbols are compared to sacred objects. Sacred objects should be respected irrespective of adherence to religion. </span></li>
</ol><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;"><br />
</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjT_ylgZJ5qYdwSPjo8BepX53CAoaihLJ1ryS0yANVmDdpGM7u63DLtF7CB1G_CBQLCPwRJaLM7iwD1TVvjqLEkXqyZ6XX0macM9btO0r3ZPRkvVemP_kLV3lpQE12UwTRufDu2E22mp1M/s1600/Excel_all.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjT_ylgZJ5qYdwSPjo8BepX53CAoaihLJ1ryS0yANVmDdpGM7u63DLtF7CB1G_CBQLCPwRJaLM7iwD1TVvjqLEkXqyZ6XX0macM9btO0r3ZPRkvVemP_kLV3lpQE12UwTRufDu2E22mp1M/s1600/Excel_all.png" height="418" width="640" /></a></div><div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;"><br />
</div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;"><b><i>Interested? Read more about international attitudes in the next post.</b></i></div>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-83019393011797489762014-12-10T13:06:00.000+05:302015-02-11T10:14:17.520+05:30The Concept of Reputation<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on"><h3>This article is a companion to my answer to <a href="http://www.quora.com/Ramayana/Was-Lord-Rama-right-in-sending-Mata-Sita-to-the-forest/answer/Ishita-Roy-9">Ramayana: Was Lord Rama right in sending Mata Sita to the forest?</a></h3><br />
Reputation is a resource. There is no denying it. Individuals and organizations can and do learn how to weaponize/market this resource, and it is the only resource available to the utterly destitute. Like any resource, reputation by itself is a source of power.<br />
<br />
e.g. Brand Equity is defined as the amount of money that can be raised by an organization solely based on its reputation. Coca Cola is said to have the highest BE in the world - exceeding several national economies. Building BE is a legitimate and vast area of study in management.<br />
<br />
Reputation is also not real. To stretch <a href="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin121094.html">this</a> metaphor from a quote by Abraham Lincoln, reputation is a product of the character of the individual, the circumstances surrounding her, and the decisions taken by her. It is a shadow of the tree, where the individual is the tree. <br />
<br />
The concept of reputation goes hand in hand with Plato's allegory of the cave. That is to say, at any given point of time, we do not see people as they are, but as a combination of<br />
<ol style="text-align: left;"><li>What we want to think about them, </li>
<li>What they want us to think about them, </li>
<li>What we have heard about them, and </li>
<li>What we actually see them saying and doing </li>
</ol><div style="text-align: left;">Simply put, we cannot see the tree, we can only see the shadow. And in order to get a correct idea of the tree, we have to see multiple shadows cast under multiple lighting conditions. And then there's the added complication of the tree being a living being (i.e. growing, aging, changing with the seasons, falling ill, dying).<br />
<br />
Thus the quest for keeping up and seeing through a reputation is never-ending, extremely important, and ultimately futile. <br />
<br />
But when the need to maintain and increase one's reputation becomes a greater drive than using that reputation for some purpose, we call that condition <i><b>vanity, pride and ego</b></i>.</div></div>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-62407741201853533482014-11-18T19:00:00.000+05:302015-07-14T22:37:05.361+05:30The Divine Paradox - Part I - Which came first, Deity or Story?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<div style="border-width: 100%; direction: ltr;">
<div style="direction: ltr; margin-left: 0in; margin-top: 0in; width: 6.8013in;">
<div style="direction: ltr; margin-left: 0in; margin-top: 0in; width: 6.8013in;">
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<i><b>A Deity is more than
a character in a mythological story. However, we cannot know the nature of
Deity without portraying the same as a character and weaving a story around
him/her/it. This is the Divine Paradox.</b></i></div>
<div style="font-family: Georgia; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
</div>
<a name='more'></a><br />
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">In my bid to criticize a recent retelling of my favourite epic, and trying to analyse the origin and functions of idolatry, I came upon this gem from a TV Tropes page:</span></div>
<div style="color: #595959; font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-top: 4pt;">
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">In the old polytheistic days, gods weren't characters in anthologies, they were everyday gods that you'd pray to when you needed something, or just as part of your daily ritual. So when you'd hear "Zeus," your first thought would be "</span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReasonableAuthorityFigure"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">king of gods, god of hospitality, law, civilization,</span></a><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">" not "</span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DepravedBisexual"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">Depraved Bisexual</span></a><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> </span><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">who'll do</span><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnythingThatMoves"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">Anything That Moves</span></a><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> </span><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">in</span><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerPerversionPotential"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">Whatever Shape He Likes.</span></a><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">" Similarly, "Hera" would inspire "</span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProperLady"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">goddess and protectress of women, home, family, and domestic life</span></a><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">" not "</span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClingyJealousGirl"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">Clingy Jealous Goddess</span></a><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BitchInSheepsClothing"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">in Sheep's Clothing</span></a><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">." However, because</span><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdaptationDistillation"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">now all that we have left</span></a><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdaptationDisplacement"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">of these gods</span></a><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdaptationDecay"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">are the stories</span></a><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">they left behind (and</span><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> what </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClassicalMythology"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;">stories</span></a><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">!), we tend to picture pretty much</span><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic;"> all </span><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic;">gods as caricatures of their original selves.</span></blockquote>
</div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="color: #595959; font-size: 9pt;">Pasted from <</span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization" style="font-size: 9pt;">http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization</a><span style="color: #595959; font-size: 9pt;">></span></div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Admittedly, I had only briefly thought about mythology from this angle (see irreverence of the MCU). But this paragraph blew my mind. Indeed, the closest parallel that I can find to these gods are <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_quantity">physical quantities</a>, which have a specific definition of their own, but can only be understood in terms of their relationship with other physical quantities and constants; their behaviour being described by laws and equations.</div>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Not convinced? Try defining time (or the rest of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_base_unit">big 7</a>).</div>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<span lang="en-GB" style="font-weight: bold;">So obsessed was I with the phrase </span><span lang="en-GB" style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">"</span><span lang="en-IN" style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">gods weren't characters in anthologies"</span><span lang="en-IN" style="font-weight: bold;">, that I asked myself,</span><span lang="en-GB" style="font-weight: bold;"> which came first - the story or the character?</span></div>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
This question was deep and unsettling to me, since it came with the realization that I had (so far) implicitly and unquestionably believed that the "story came first" - a very grave error on my part.</div>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
As for the question itself, I studied the entire paragraph in some depth, and came up with an allegorical solution that is based off a quote from <a href="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin121094.html">Abraham Lincoln</a>, with a side order of Plato's <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlatonicCave">Allegory of the Cave</a>. My allegory has the following postulates:</div>
<ol style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt;">
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Mr. Lincoln likens the character of a person to a tree, and the reputation of that person to the shadow of the tree. I take the allegory further by taking note of a third element in this equation viz. circumstance, here represented by the lighting conditions, the surface on which the shadow is cast, the acuteness of the observer of said shadow, etc.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I also posit that the character of a person is fundamentally imperceptible i.e. we cannot see the tree - only its shadow, and must approximate its shape and size by observing the shadow under various circumstances.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Any person has only partial control over her character - she may want to be an </span><a href="http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0085860/quotes" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">orange tree</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt;">, but can't simply become one if she is born a </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WesternAnimation/KungFuPanda" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">peach tree</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt;">. She also has partial control over her circumstances, because </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnalogyBackfire" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">people</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainObvious" style="font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">aren't trees</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt;">.</span></li>
</span></ol>
<span style="font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt;"> </span> <br />
<ol style="direction: ltr; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; margin-bottom: 0in; margin-left: 0.375in; margin-top: 0in; unicode-bidi: embed;" type="1"></ol>
<div lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Postulate II is true of physical quantities: we may not 'know' time itself, merely measure the time elapsed between two phenomena. It has also been explained thusly in the particular case of humans:</span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span lang="en-IN" style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;">In a very real sense, we don't perceive anything but shadows. You think you see other people, but that's just Electromagnetic waves stimulating your retina. What you hear is just molecular vibrations. What you feel is just pressure picked up by your nerves. Humans do not have one single sense that</span><span lang="en-GB" style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;">directly </span><span lang="en-IN" style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;">perceives how we interpret the data we receive from the environment.</span><span lang="en-GB" style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;"> In other words, </span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm"><span lang="en-GB" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; font-style: italic;">You Cannot Grasp the True Form</span></a><span lang="en-GB" style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;"> of everything around you, and what you see is just an illusion created by the brain trying to make sense out of everything.</span></li>
<ul>
<li><span lang="en-IN" style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;">Also the fact that we're all living</span><span lang="en-GB" style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;"> slightly </span><span lang="en-IN" style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;">in the past. All signals take some time, an incredibly small amount of time, but still, for the brain to interpret after they're received, and even take time to reach the observer.</span></li>
<li><span style="color: #595959; font-family: 'Nirmala UI'; font-size: 11pt; font-style: italic;">More significantly, it would take a very long time to perceive all the tiles in your bathroom in the level of detail you believe you see them in. Your eye looks at one or two in detail then perceives the whole wall in low quality and your brain just assumes that those vaguely tile-like blobs look the same as the tiles you saw in detail. Most optical illusions exploit weaknesses in this step.</span></li>
</ul>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<div style="color: #595959; font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 9.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Pasted from <<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlatonicCave">http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlatonicCave</a>> </div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
So, how does it answer our original question? My answer is simply this: <b>the character does indeed come <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/WriteAStory">first</a>. Especially when the character is a God or some such entity.</b> (S)he is conceived by the writer/prophet in a certain way, and said writer/prophet tries to describe said character using a story.</div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
However, writers/prophets are human, as are their audiences. It is possible that the character was <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContinuityDrift">incompletely</a> <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharacterDerailment">conceived</a>. Or that the story has <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DependingOnTheArtist">multiple</a> <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DependingOnTheAuthor">authors</a>. Or the audiences favour an <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TitleDrop">Alternate</a> <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin">Character</a> <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlternateCharacterInterpretation">Interpretation</a>, and will create and propagate fanfiction to that effect.</div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Enter the fourth dimension (to <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewersAreMorons">recap</a>, the 3 dimensions are Character, Story/Reputation and Circumstance) of Fandom. Fanatics aka fans aren't just observers, they are emotionally invested observers (remember, hatred, envy and sundry malice are also emotions). Fans are the ultimate authority over what is considered canon. And most importantly, fans have standards i.e. they will restrain all fanfiction and character development within certain limits so as to avoid <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TitleDrop">Canon</a> <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CanonDefilement">Defilement</a>.</div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
But Fandoms are mortal. The original fandoms of Norse and Hellenic Myths have been extinct for years. <b>So who decides canon now?</b></div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: "Nirmala UI"; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
So in effect, even though the character comes first, the only way for us to know of the character is through stories. But characters and stories and fandoms are all dynamic things, and therefore we can never know either the character or the story… or can we?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-62430181511862661652014-11-02T16:12:00.001+05:302014-11-02T16:32:54.249+05:30Science:Linux::Religion:Windows<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Yet another Facebook debate (Albeit sparked by me).<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Science is a religion because it is a world view of
considerable complexity with a number of major tenets. Most of these major
tenets are as follows: the universe is real, and therefore a valid object for
examination; it is of value for human beings to examine the
universe; the universe makes sense - that is, it follows certain laws and is
predictable;</blockquote>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The neophyte scientist, recently come or converted
to the world view of science, can be every bit as fanatical as a Christian
crusader or a soldier of Allah...we have emotional as well as intellectual
motives to smash the idols of primitive faith. A mark of maturity in
scientists, however, is the awareness that science may be as subject to
dogmatism as any other religion<br />
<br />
The notions of science themselves become cultural
idols,... In its laudable insistence upon experience, accurate observation and
verifiability, science has placed great emphasis upon measurement... But by
virtue of its success, measurement has become a kind of scientific idol... It
is as if they were to say, "What we cannot measure, we cannot know; there
is no point in worrying about what we cannot know; therefore, what cannot be
measured is unimportant and unworthy of our observation."<br />
<br />
perhaps we shall soon be able to say: "There
is nothing beyond the limits of our vision. If we decide to study something, we
can always find the methodology with which to do it."<br />
<br />
When we are able to say that "a human is both
mortal and eternal at the same time" and "light is both a wave and a
particle at the same time," we are speaking the same language.</blockquote>
<div class="MsoQuote">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoQuote">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoQuote">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoQuote">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoQuote">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoQuote">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoQuote">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
</div>
<div class="MsoQuote">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
These quotes are taken verbatim from a book called "The Road
Less Traveled" written by M. Scott Peck, an M.D. in Psychiatry. A similar
opinion has been expressed by sociologists, anthropologists and scientists like
Carl Sagan. Sociologists BTW are the blokes who define what religion and
science are.</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
My point is this, to most of us, the Universe, just like a
computer, is a '<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">black </a><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackBox" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">box</a>'. We don't really know
anything about the hardware or the software, but we know if we put in certain
inputs in a certain way, we can expect certain outputs. To that end, we have to
use an operating system.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Science and Religion are both operating Systems through
which we experience and understand the known (and unknown) universe, and most importantly,
<i>make it do something useful</i>. Some OS like Linux, focus on understanding the
machine/universe at a relatively deeper level so that we may better control it.
Other OS like Windows, focus on getting the job done, without having the user
spend valuable time and energy in training themselves in esoteric fields such
as programming.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Science is like Linux. Supercomputers are run on it. All CGI
companies use it. Android OS is based off it. But its popularity will always be
limited because most people don't need to use supercomputers or make CGI. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Android is to Linux what Technology is to Science. Again in
the case of Technology, just like with Android, most people neither root their android devices or realistically
use a fraction of the awesome features that android actually has (features, not
apps).<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
Religion is like Windows. It is popular because it takes
care of the mundane. It is uncomplicated and intuitive. The <a href="http://www.hole-in-the-wall.com/Beginnings.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">hole in the wall project</a> would not have
succeeded with Linux. Like Windows, Religion gets the job done. And it can be
just as fascinating to the nerds as Linux.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
So to speak of your specific objections:<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
a) scientists are human and therefore science is not free of
subjectivity, emotion and personal biases. Science is not universal - it is a
platform where consensus can be built or broken about the way we understand the
world.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
b) religions are also based on research and deal with the
basic political, economic, social and legal realities - in case it isn't clear
to you, these things have logic and rationality at their foundations<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
c) The problem is not with religion - it is with human
nature and our tendency to be dogmatic. <o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
The age of an ocean is a question that makes sense to a
geologist. To the religious, that age is an irrelevant number - because it
doesn't affect the way we treat that ocean and its resources and the organisms
in it.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
And all religious people are not Literalists. Remember, Buddhism is also a religion.<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
<o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com13tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-72160442664547878362014-10-09T19:16:00.001+05:302014-10-09T20:02:47.406+05:30छिन्नमस्तिका<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgbalV1WtRWO3UsKS-g9q9uQ8GEjqbkzOMSA0MReEw0D_x9MxQVt1aZUwBA3QjuTCpZn9N6fW9La_F2lxI7ZP423VjRCcPG78_r6-BrOfRF-_ecwgcJghDvCqD8Yez3C4hi-oRL9Q5zBV4/s1600/Kumbh+Mela.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="My parents at the Kumbha Mela, Allahabad, May 2013" border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgbalV1WtRWO3UsKS-g9q9uQ8GEjqbkzOMSA0MReEw0D_x9MxQVt1aZUwBA3QjuTCpZn9N6fW9La_F2lxI7ZP423VjRCcPG78_r6-BrOfRF-_ecwgcJghDvCqD8Yez3C4hi-oRL9Q5zBV4/s1600/Kumbh+Mela.jpg" height="240" title="My parents at the Kumbha Mela, Allahabad, May 2013" width="320" /></a><span lang="SA" style="font-family: Mangal, serif; font-size: 16pt;"></span></div>
<div style="color: #1e4e79; text-align: left;">
<span style="font-family: Mangal, serif; font-size: 16pt;">ध्यानम्</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Millions of bards and stalwarts of prose,</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Have previously tried to compose,</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Their versions of this miraculous tale,</span></div>
<div style="text-align: left;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">And some have succeeded where others fail</span></div>
<br />
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Among their number, O Father let me be,</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Allow me Mother, to show what I can see.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">This tale immortal of The Headless One,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">I dedicate to my parents, to the Earth and
the Sun.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype
id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t"
path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f">
<v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/>
<v:formulas>
<v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/>
<v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/>
<v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/>
<v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/>
<v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/>
<v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/>
<v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/>
<v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/>
<v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/>
<v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/>
<v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/>
</v:formulas>
<v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/>
<o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/>
</v:shapetype><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_1" o:spid="_x0000_i1028" type="#_x0000_t75"
style='width:6in;height:324pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square'>
<v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\Ishita\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.jpg"
o:title="image001"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: left;">
<span lang="SA" style="color: #1e4e79; font-family: "Mangal","serif"; font-size: 16.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-language: SA; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">श्मशानः</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<a href="http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvfum67mrI1qzix81o1_1280.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="Shiva watches Parvati Sleep. Courtesy: eyeburfi2.tumblr.com" border="0" src="http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvfum67mrI1qzix81o1_1280.jpg" height="400" title="Shiva watches Parvati Sleep. Courtesy: eyeburfi2.tumblr.com" width="293" /></a><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Our Mother, ruler of the nine-doored town,</span><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Armed with a ladle and jewelled crown,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Protectress of life, mistress of time,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Fount of mercy and wisdom sublime.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Our Father who roams every realm,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Skull in hand and crescent on his helm,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Lord of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endless_(comics)" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Endless</a>, Himself the End,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">His Grace, no one can comprehend.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Outside Her city, by nine gates bound,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Lies a terrifying charnel ground<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">'Tis the threshold between death and birth,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And play and illusion, sorrow and mirth.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Our wandering Father here finds repose,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And with our Mother on a deer-skin
lies, <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Their passion creates, compassion
preserves,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And their wrath dissolves all worldly ties.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span lang="SA" style="color: #1e4e79; font-family: "Mangal","serif"; font-size: 16.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-language: SA; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">रक्तपात्</span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://honesthistory.net.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/A_battle_scence_from_Mahabharata.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_battle_scence_from_Mahabharata.jpg" border="0" src="http://honesthistory.net.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/A_battle_scence_from_Mahabharata.jpg" height="224" title="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_battle_scence_from_Mahabharata.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">While They rested on Their bed,</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Malice raised its ugly head,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Envy, sloth and empty pride,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Gnawed at Creation from inside.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Then giants and elves and creatures small,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Aesir, Vanir, Madyr all<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Claimed Eminence and the spoils of war<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And shook the nine realms to the core.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<a href="http://shaktisadhana.50megs.com/images/chinnamasta/chinnamastadevi1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img alt="http://shaktisadhana.50megs.com/Newhomepage/Frames/gallery/mahavidyas/chinnamasta.html" border="0" src="http://shaktisadhana.50megs.com/images/chinnamasta/chinnamastadevi1.jpg" height="232" title="http://shaktisadhana.50megs.com/Newhomepage/Frames/gallery/mahavidyas/chinnamasta.html" width="320" /></a><span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The Parents of the world couldn't bear<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">This sight of Creation in despair<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;"><br /></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Our Mother rose and drew Her sword<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And cut off Her head of Her own accord.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">The venom they spewed and the blood they
shed<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">In their belligerence and hatred<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Now flowed from Her neck as one stream <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Her bodiless mouth opened in a scream.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And then the fount of Her blood divine,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">She drunk as though as it were wine,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Her bellicose children stopped and stared,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">For this sight had all of them scared.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="color: #1e4e79; font-family: Mangal, serif; font-size: 16pt;"><br /></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: left;">
<span style="color: #1e4e79; font-family: Mangal, serif; font-size: 16pt;">दर्शनम्</span></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://www.exoticindia.com/hindu/hm68.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img alt="Courtesy: exoticindiaart.com, Product code: HM68" border="0" src="http://www.exoticindia.com/hindu/hm68.jpg" height="400" title="Courtesy: exoticindiaart.com, Product code: HM68" width="305" /></a></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Our Father who meanwhile lay unstirred,</span><span dir="RTL" lang="AR-SA" style="font-size: 11.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Now opened His eyes and averred,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Behold young ones! Don't avert your eyes,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Contemplate Her sacrifice.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">See how all wounds of foe or friend,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Equally doth Her heart rend,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">No matter which among you wins,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">All shall bleed if one of you sins.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">You who clamour for Eminence,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Regard her and dispel your ignorance,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">For the universe emanates from Her<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And in Her alone will find its end.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Discard your envy, quell your greed,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Help your sibling in times of need,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Shed your lethargy, check your ire,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Lest you fall prey to your own desire.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Having quoth these words, He closed His
eyes,</span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">And Our Parents both dematerialized.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">This tale of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tterd%C3%A4mmerung"><i>Götterdämmerung</i></a>,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin: 0cm;">
<span style="font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11.0pt;">Was since that day forever sung.</span></div>
</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-71435010637351691592014-09-11T19:48:00.000+05:302014-09-12T19:50:14.921+05:30Scepticism v. Mythology<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Sceptics
question everyone and everything. That's a good thing to do. Humans as a
species owe a lot to the work of sceptics - who dared question the
unquestionable, and led us to break not only the barriers of human knowledge,
but also the chains of slavery and discrimination.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
So in the
months following my induction training, I spent a lot of my free time reading
about the work of sceptics, rationalists and feminists. Among the many websites
I frequented were <a href="http://sci-ence.org/">sci-ence.org</a>, <a href="http://nirmukta.com/">nirmukta.com</a>, <a href="http://www.feministfrequency.com/">feministfrequency.com</a>, Professor
Steven Dutch's <a href="https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pscindx.htm">Pseudoscience</a>
blog and the Facebook posts of <a href="https://www.facebook.com/FeministIndia?fref=ts">Feminist India</a>
community. I also happened to read a few wonderful books such as <a href="http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/17.Philosophy%20of%20Hinduism.htm">The
Philosophy of Hinduism</a> by Dr. B. R. Ambedkar, and <a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1952/1952-h/1952-h.htm">The Yellow
Wallpaper</a> by Charlotte Perkins Gilman. All of it fascinating and
eye-opening stuff.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
But soon
enough I noticed a common theme running in all these sources. Almost all of
them had some degree of distaste for not only religion, but also serious (and
unexplained) objections to Mythology and Stories.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Being an
avid fan of storytelling and mythology myself, and a feminist and rationalist
to boot, I was deeply concerned with this undercurrent of anti-narrativium
among my fellow sceptics. And that's why I decided to write this.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">Stories
& Mythology - the What and the Why</span></b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Human
senses are not what we would call perfect. Even beyond the physical limitations
of the organs involved, human senses are highly discriminatory. For example, we
possess the ability to focus on a single conversation even in the midst of a
noisy crowd. Our brain naturally edits a lot of recurring sensory information -
e.g. the sounds of our bones as we are walking, and fills in a lot of absent
information e.g. optical illusions regarding light and shade. In addition to
all this, we can be trained - consciously or unconsciously and to ignore
certain stimuli or see/hear things that are not there. Simply put, human senses
are not completely objective.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Human
memory is also very different from say a computer hard-drive memory. Its
primary function is not the recording of the facts or phenomena themselves, but
our physical and emotional response to and the respective consequences of said
phenomena. It is precisely because human memory is thus imperfect that newsmen
use the word 'report' or 'story' as opposed to 'fact' or 'truth' to describe a
news item. This is also why the scientific method relies on reproducibility of
research/experiments.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Ponder on
the ramifications of this for a minute. We do not see or hear objectively. When
we narrate our experiences, it is always coloured by our own biases, not to
mention the imperfection of our memory. The recipient of our narrative - our
audience, so to speak, is also biased - and will see and hear what they like,
not what we tell them. It takes several iterations (and by multiple persons) of
observation, recording, and discussion to arrive at the objective truth. It is
why the cornerstone of even modern Science and Engineering is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximation_theory">Approximation Theory</a>.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
It is this
lack of objectivity that gives rise to a form of communication called 'Story'.
A story is a structured description of events, real or imaginary. However it is
essential to note that any story, no matter how fictional, is never a lie.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
A story is
an attempt to understand and depict a truth. This truth may be mundane or
profound, objective or subjective, local or universal. Storytelling therefore
belongs to the same class of intellectual exercises as a scientific hypothesis
or a scholarly article. Needless to say, a story can have other functions also
e.g. entertainment and social engineering. But without a shadow of doubt,
storytelling was the first attempt at an intellectual exercise by human beings.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Just as the
entire body of scientific knowledge is composed of scientific hypotheses, laws
and theories and the techniques and experiments associated with them, the body
of stories endemic to a particular group or culture is known as a Mythology.
For example, Norse Mythology is the collection of stories endemic to people of
Scandinavian origin. Again, a mythology may or may not be explicitly connected
to Religion. For example a Comic Book Universe such as the DC Universe or the
Marvel Universe is an example of modern, secular mythology.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">'Sacred'
Stories and the problems with Religious Mythology</span></b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Stories are
born out of both observation and imagination. Even the most esoteric
narratives, such as James Joyce's <i>Ulysses</i>, have a basis in reality.
Modern mythologies such as the Harry Potter 'Verse are equal parts wish
fulfilment and speculation about the nature of human relationships and power
dynamics. Likewise, the most faithful narrations of historical events will have
gaps filled in by conjecture and speculation.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Even the
most die hard sceptic and rationalist will have no trouble with most such
stories. They acknowledge the utility of imagination in all walks of life, and
the value of allegory and <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Applicability">applicability</a>
as form of communicating timeless ideals. What they do have trouble accepting,
is the concept of 'Sacred' Stories.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
A 'sacred'
story is a part of the mythology (religious or secular) which is accepted as
being 'canon' i.e. official and true by the fans of that mythology. e.g. In the
Sherlock Holmes mythology, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's stories are obviously
canon, but the various film and TV adaptations are also considered canon. In
the case of religious mythology, 'sacred' stories are usually collected into
what eventually becomes the scripture.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
The
problems with 'sacred stories' go beyond just the obvious.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l7 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>For starters, when the people of a culture
elevate a story to the status of 'sacred' they inevitably end up discounting
the 'imaginary' part of the story, i.e. they start insisting that the story is
100% observation, and not the mix of observation and imagination that it
actually is. This can happen with non-religious stories also - see <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LiteraryAgentHypothesis">Literary
Agent Hypothesis</a>.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l7 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>Sometimes even if they acknowledge that the
story is not literally true, they are divided as to whether it has allegory or
applicability. This makes a big difference.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 54.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l7 level2 lfo2; tab-stops: list 72.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->a.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>A story with allegory has only one correct
meaning - the one intended by its author. It is meant to be prescriptive. This
is problematic because such stories are frequently highly ambiguous, and it is
humanly impossible for us to figure out what the author really meant -
especially if the author is dead or unknown (or God forbid, God Himself).<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 54.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l7 level2 lfo2; tab-stops: list 72.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->b.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>A story with applicability does not necessarily
have a meaning. It is simply meant to provoke thought on a topic. (Dr. Devdutt
Pattanaik calls such stories 'Reflective'). This is would be unproblematic, if
people actually accepted that their 'sacred' stories were applicable and not
allegorical.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->3.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>Also, as said before, a story is an attempt to
understand and depict a truth. But is the truth behind a 'sacred' story
objective or subjective? Is it specific to a time and place, or universal?
Mundane or Profound? These are difficult questions.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l5 level1 lfo3; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->4.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>And then you have something call the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoffsLaw">Moff's Law</a>,
which may be summarized as (paraphrasing Howard Taylor):<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;">
<i><span style="background: white;">It's not
over-analysis when every stray thought about the story has to be quashed lest
you realize how stupid the story is.</span></i><o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm;">
<span style="background: white;">When
applied to 'sacred' stories, Moff's Law states that the biases of the narrator
of such stories are sometimes so glaringly obvious, that they cannot be</span> overlooked while figuring out the true message of the story.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">Why
'sacred' stories can't be dismissed as superstition</span></b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
So I
totally understand if sceptics have trouble with 'sacred' stories and
especially religious ones. But the question is, are we throwing out the baby
with the bathwater when we ignore or denounce these 'sacred' stories?<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Most
'sacred' stories predate the invention of writing, or are primarily preserved
through the oral tradition. This makes them especially prone to mutation over
the generations. However, when a story is designated 'sacred', special efforts
are made to preserve it in its original form, which ensures that the
prescriptions and/or reflections in the story are also preserved. And sometimes
these values are timeless and universal. Thus to dismiss such stories as mere
fantasy could and would rob us of the wisdom of our ancients.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
As Dr.
Devdutt Pattanaik says, "Myths are the concentrated fruit of the fears,
despairs, hopes of our ancestors. When we denounce our myths we denounce our
ancestors."<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Another
oft-ignored fact is that just like any other organization, countries and
communities need a Vision, Mission and Value statement. And more often than
not, 'sacred' stories provide these vision, mission and values. For example, the
narrative of 'Thanksgiving' in the USA tells the story of the original
passengers of the ship Mayflower and their interactions with the Native
Americans. Granted, it is more of a mythical narrative than a historical one,
but it nevertheless defines the values of thrift and enterprise that form the
very fabric of American culture.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
For those
who argue that 'sacred' stories bring a lot unnecessary religious baggage,
consider this, that even the most neutral of documents, e.g. the Constitution
of India require a sort of religious devotion in order to function. As Indians
it is our sworn duty to uphold our Constitution. That essentially makes Indian
Nationalism our religion (<span lang="HI" style="font-family: "Nirmala UI","sans-serif"; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-language: HI;">हिंदी है हम वतन है</span>), the Preamble our 'covenant' and the Constitution our 'sacred' story.<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
Indeed, for
the better or the worse, humans aren't rational creatures. We never have been.
As Dr Prabhakar Kamath warns in his article "A Rational Approach to the
Problem of Obsessive Compulsive Religion":<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<i><span style="color: #595959; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">While
attempting to reform society, all rationalist must keep in mind the dictum that
all solutions for societal problems, no matter how noble their original intents
were, become problems themselves sooner or later. This is especially true in
India. Don’t be surprised that someday in the future Rationalism will become a
religion riddled with gods and mindless rituals! People bring into
organizations their own unconscious beliefs and behaviors rooted in them and
destroy the original goals of the organization.</span></i><span style="color: #595959; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">The
Solution</span></b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
With the
rise of highly popular secular mythologies like the various Science Fiction,
Fantasy, and Manga and Comic book universes, we are able to observe at first
hand the phenomena of myth-making, the behaviour of fan-bases and the effect of
fan-fiction on canonical stories.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
It would
not be inaccurate to use this data to approximate the circumstances of the
birth and evolution of the world's most ancient and enduring 'sacred'
mythologies. Indeed, the most important inference that can be drawn from the
observation of contemporary mythologies is that myth-making is not inherently
inimical to rationality. If anything, they are complementary.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
This is
amply demonstrated by the fact that religious stories almost always
outlive the religions that they were
born in. Nobody worships Thor or Anubis or Astarte anymore. But the stories of
these old Gods still survive. They still make millions at the box office. And
yet we as a generation represent the pinnacle of the triumphs of Science and
Rationality.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
So I say
don't throw away the old stories, no matter what kind of religious/political
baggage that they are encumbered with. Keep the baby <u>and</u> the bathwater.
Keep the baby and nurture it, so it may grow and add to your wisdom. Use that
bathwater to cleanse your mind of prejudices.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">Epilogue</span></b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
In writing
this article, I also had a secondary motivation, viz. to codify the fundamental
properties of stories and storytelling, not unlike <a href="http://www.trinity.edu/cspinks/myth/10commands_myth.pdf">Joseph
Campbell's 10 Commandments of Reading Myth</a>. So here's my attempt at the
Fundamental laws of Storytelling:<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l4 level1 lfo4; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>Humans are narrativistic creatures<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo5; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;">·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>We always think in stories. We are <a href="http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/Narrativium"><i>Pan narrans</i></a><i>,</i> the storytelling ape. <span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l8 level1 lfo6; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>A story may be fictional but never a lie<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l10 level1 lfo7; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;">·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>It is always an attempt to understand and depict
a truth. This truth may be mundane or profound, objective or subjective, local
or universal. <span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l11 level1 lfo8; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->3.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>All stories are ultimately the property of their
audience<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo9; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;">·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor">The Author is Dead</a><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l9 level1 lfo10; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->4.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>All stories are inherently mutable, and never
static<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l6 level1 lfo11; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;">·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>Even if the text stays the same, because the
story changes the audience, so that when they hear it again, they are not the
same people who heard it the first time<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l3 level1 lfo12; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]-->5.<span style="font-size: 7pt;">
</span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>All stories have utility<o:p></o:p></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm; margin-left: 27.0pt; margin-right: 0cm; margin-top: 0cm; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo13; tab-stops: list 36.0pt; text-indent: -18.0pt; vertical-align: middle;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: Symbol; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol;">·<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span dir="LTR"></span>either to their author, or to their audience, or
both<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;">Further
reading</span></b><span style="color: #366092; font-size: 13.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
I strongly
recommend the complete works of Sir Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, especially
the latter's <i>Sandman</i> comics. And no mythology aficionado worth her salt
can go without reading Dr. Devdutt Pattanaik's blog <a href="http://www.devdutt.com/">www.devdutt.com</a>. For a bibliography of
selected passages and articles see <a href="onenote:Mythology.one#Selected%20passages%20-%20devdutt.com&section-id={2B25A53C-11C9-4732-899C-EA9012C0A4F6}&page-id={D16446C9-5F53-482B-A2C7-34EB80ACBDFE}&base-path=https://d.docs.live.net/ba8a3e7b48b0d3f1/^.Documents/Blog">here</a>.<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
<br /></div>
<div style="margin-bottom: .0001pt; margin-bottom: 0cm;">
And last
but definitely not the least, read <a href="http://tvtropes.org/">tvtropes.org</a>
, particularly the sections about <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MetafictionDemandedThisIndex">Metafiction</a>,
<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawsAndFormulas">Laws and
Formulas</a> and <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UsefulNotes">Useful Notes</a>.
Warning: <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife">May
Ruin Your Life!</a><o:p></o:p></div>
<br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
<br /></div>
</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-84026930477894448392014-06-27T02:54:00.001+05:302014-07-01T00:57:54.378+05:30Debate 2: Round - X - Ishita<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<b style="background-color: white; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18.200000762939453px;"><i>Read previous round <a href="http://pokans.blogspot.in/p/round-ix-alok.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>. Table of Contents <a href="http://pokans.blogspot.in/p/debate-feminism.html" rel="nofollow" style="color: #b26f3a; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">here</a>.</i></b><br />
<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">Kumar Alok,</span><br />
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; margin-left: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-top: 10pt;">
If I may, here's what I understand your entire critique to be:<br />
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Feminism is a purely western ideology, and not an all-encompassing
philosophy that believes in or works towards achieving gender equality because
it is a rights based approach and a pro-woman stance, which is grounded in the
assumption of an 'independent individual'.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Because of the above reasons (and more), Indian visionaries who worked for
the welfare of women in India cannot be classified as feminists.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Dehumanization doesn't exist (and cannot exist) - it is a fiction that is
propagated (if not created) by human rights activists, and feminists, in order
to further their agenda (whatever that may be).</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; margin-left: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-top: 10pt;">
With that out of the way, let me address
the critique.<br />
1. Logic is a branch of mathematics,
i.e. it's a tool. Transposition (or any other logical operation) can neither
create nor destroy information - it merely presents the various equivalent
forms of the given information. If the transposed statement seems to be lacking
information - it is only because the original statement didn't have much info
to begin with. 'All Men are mortals' is a useless and redundant statement in a
universe where all organisms and phenomena are mortal.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
2. Before we
proceed, a word on what rights and duties mean.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
I refer you to <a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rights/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">W. N. Hohfeld's</a><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> seminal analysis of these fundamental jural concepts, which is the
basis of modern jurisprudence.</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> Relevant conclusions:</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br />
a. The first thing to know about rights and duties is that they are <span style="font-weight: bold;">FUNCTIONALLY INSEPARABLE</span>. They are like Action
and Reaction in Newton's 3rd law of motion - they are equal, opposite, and are
exerted by and on different bodies. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
If you fail in your
duties, the FIRST negatively affected party will always be somebody else. Any
repercussions on you due to your failure to perform your duties is always
secondary and enforced by somebody else (a court of law, or a vengeful
aggrieved party, etc.)</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
e.g. If you fail in your duties to take care of
and respect your elderly parents, they are the ones who'll pay for it. They're
the ones deprived of care and honour. You clearly never had any use for their
blessings and emotional support in the first place, so you lose nothing.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
It is also futile to
talk about 'rights based' or 'duty based' approaches to anything - they are one
and the same. It does not matter if you define crime as transgression of duty
or violation of rights, the plaintiff will be the same person - but never the
same as the defendant. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
b. The only exception
to this would the concept of a <u>purely </u>moral duty. A purely moral duty is based
on the concept that no one has any rights (or the ability to defend them) - only the capability to perform
duties, and that transgression of said duties affects the transgressor <u>ALONE</u>,
by injuring his/her conscience. Moral systems linked to organized religion such
as 'Karma' or 'Judgement Day' tend to escalate the injury to conscience into
allegedly higher personal punishments. The problems with a purely moral duty
based approach are that</div>
<div style="margin: 0in; text-align: left;">
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">It is based on a
lie. As proved above, regardless of injury to conscience (or higher personal
punishment), it is always a second party who is first and foremost negatively
affected.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">It removes from
society the power to hold the transgressors accountable, and deprives the
aggrieved of justice.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">This is a
textbook definition of an individualistic approach.</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">It will be
interesting to note that there is no concept of rights that is analogous to a
purely moral duty. A right is always a legal concept, and always correlated
with a duty. A social contract emphasizing on rights can only be sustained in a
scenario where everybody performs their duties.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
c. The jural concept
of Privilege is defined as a lack of duties on one's part. Some privileges are
legal e.g. I'm not required to respect an (armed and dangerous) enemy soldier's
right to life. I have the privilege (license) to kill. Like rights, legal privileges
also come at a price. The license to kill has to be earned through training and
loyalty, and may be used only when authorized or in extreme circumstances.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
The question here is
of unearned and illegal privileges. These are privileges obtained due to
non-performance of duty. Ancient Vedic culture is built around Brahmin and Male
(unearned) privilege. Go ahead and read the <a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Manusmriti</a>.
<span style="color: #333333;">You are certainly capable of evaluating evidences
for yourself. You may also read this text </span><a href="http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/17.Philosophy%20of%20Hinduism.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Philosophy of Hinduism</a><span style="font-size: 11pt;">. It was written by the Father of
the Indian Constitution.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
d. The Hohfeldian
definition and analysis of the eight jural concepts is based on the assumption that <i>all humans are fundamentally and
undeniably interdependent</i>. It acknowledges the fact that humans have the
capability, both individually and in a group, to deny or violate the rights of
other individuals and groups. It also acknowledges that the dehumanized and
oppressed individuals and groups have the power to fight back for their rights.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
e. Essentially, if
we call any right inalienable, we are not saying that they CAN'T be violated.
We're declaring that denial or violation
of that right is 'unnatural' i.e. violates natural justice, and is 'inhuman' i.e.
denies the humanity of the person whose inalienable right was violated. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
When we declare
something a human right (as opposed to say an animal right), we're not saying
that possession of that right MAKES a person human. We're saying that a person
has that right BECAUSE they're human. We're saying that Denial of human rights
to some person is the same as Denial of that person's humanity, i.e.
dehumanization.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
The right to be
recognized as a legal person is one such inalienable human right. (see again Art. 6 of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights). Even incompetents, i.e. children, the comatose,
the mentally incapacitated, the unborn, etc. are not denied legal personality -
their legal personality is exercised indirectly through their legal guardians.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
3. Pointwise answer
to your conclusions about the transposition of legal and natural personality</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
a. Explained above,
humans have the ability to deny personhood</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
b. Communist or
despot-ruled states need not be lawless. The difference between democracy and
other political systems lies in the investiture of power and the ease of change
of leadership, not in their ability to govern well and enact and enforce good
legislation. Case in point: Rwanda - dictatorship and a successful model of
gender equality</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
c. Of course it can. It is ultimately a question of 'Who will guard the guards?'.<br />
As explained above, dehumanized people can and did fight for their rights. The citizens of
India rose against the British Indian Government, as did other colonies. We
didn't exactly fight a legal battle… See Civil Disobedience Movement.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
d. Not a possible
conclusion. See the above answers.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
e. and f.
Explained above, incompetents are not denied legal personality.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Your alleged
implications do not exist. Q.E.D.</div>
<div style="margin: 0in;">
<div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">
4. Dehumanization is not just about treating people as property. As you have pointed out, property may have monetary value, and be indispensable for survival. Dehumanization is <u>treating people worse than property</u>. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">
Apart from the legal definition of dehumanization as violation and denial of inalienable human rights, it is associated with objectification. <a href="http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2961930?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21104396276313" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">This article</a> by Martha Nussbaum, current
Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor of Law and Ethics at the
University of Chicago, defines objectification of persons as an action which entails one or more of the following:</div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
</div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li>Instrumentality (using someone as a tool for another's
purposes);</li>
<li>Commodification (by denial of autonomy and agency);</li>
<li>Fungibility (treating someone as if interchangeable with
another of his/her category);</li>
<li>Violability (not respecting their boundaries, treating
damage to their person as permissible);</li>
<li>Disposability</li>
</ul>
<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">5. Criticisms
against feminism</span><o:p></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
a. <b>An indoctrinating ideology</b><br />
As previously explained, Feminism doesn't pretend to see (or show) anything false. It is based on the stone cold reality of the worldwide inferior and despicable status of women. It traces this phenomenon to its underlying causes and tries to reverse it.<br />
<br />
<div style="font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">
b. <b>Originated in the West </b>- not true, and not a valid criticism.</div>
<div style="font-size: 11pt; margin: 0in;">
Feminism is about gender equality. Gender inequality is a worldwide phenomenon and must not be reduced to an East v. West debate.<br />
Besides, as I've explained repeatedly, the philosophy that women should be socially, politically and economically equal to men isn't of western origin. As for the activism, a Western origin doesn't preclude a movement from adapting itself to Eastern outlooks.<br />
<br /></div>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">c.<b> Rights based
approach</b> - debunked above, all approaches are equally rights and duty based.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
d. <b>Pro-woman stance</b></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
It appears that some
good people are confused about how a gender-biased approach can lead to gender
equality. I have three answers:</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<ol style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> We live in a
world which is in a state of gender imbalance and inequality. Here the ONLY
approach to restore balance and equality is to boost the oppressed gender,
until equality has been achieved. And there's no doubt about which is the
oppressed gender.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Pro-woman is
not anti-man. Restoring rights to women does not take away rights from men, it
takes away the unearned and illegal privileges hitherto held by men. Again, the
restoration of women's rights and removal of these unearned and illegal male privileges
is the ONLY approach to gender equality.</span></li>
<li><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Even if you
include the LGBTQIA rights into the equation, you'll find that Feminism has (at
least in the West) quickly evolved to include the LGBTQIA community in its
fight for gender equality.</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">e. <b>Not validated by
Hindu scripture</b> - Are. You. Serious?</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Can any 'scripture'
truly be the source and repository of all knowledge? It is a bigoted and frankly ridiculous
excuse for dismissing any philosophy.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
f. <b>"such texts
place a heavy emphasis on </b><span style="color: #333333;"><b>character and a sense of
right and wrong to qualify one as a human being" </b>- and feminism does not?</span></div>
<div style="color: #333333; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
The
whole concept of inalienable rights revolves around humans having the basic
decency to accept other human beings as fellow humans. All legal rights are
ultimately tied to ethics and morality, and that's why they are called
'rights'. Feminism is after all a part of the larger human rights movement.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
g. <b>Western feminist
activism is '</b><span style="color: #333333;"><b>distinctly grounded in the assumption
of an "independent individual"'</b> - Er… No.</span></div>
<div style="color: #333333; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Western
society places a high premium on 'individual achievement'. This is not to say
that it does not recognize or devalues 'interdependency'. If anything, they
have a better sense of collectivism than anyone in the planet. You can read
about it Swami Vivekananda's epistles where he praises the social systems in
the USA. Or look at how all the Scandinavian and other highly developed
European countries are also highly unionised. Or see how modern jurisprudence
is organized. </div>
<div style="color: #333333; font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
There
are societies who actually <span style="font-size: 11pt;">do</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">not put a premium on 'individual achievement'. Ancient
Vedic culture wasn't one of them. Modern Hinduism certainly isn't. The
Varnashrama dharma is all about the (Brahmin and Male) individual's achievement
of Moksha. As explained above, the law of Karma is also essentially
individualistic. </span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">So this criticism is
both false and moot.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Simply put, Misogyny
and Misandry are the extreme opposites, feminism stands squarely in the middle.
<b><i><u>So yes, <span style="color: #333333;">every talk of gender equality IS feminist.</span></u></i></b></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
<br /></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
6. Regarding Swami
Dayanand Saraswati. A few basic facts.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
a. Swamiji was a
reformer. A radical reformer, in fact. The crux and origin of his reforms was the notion that all non-Vedic scripture is a deceitful construct promoted by people with vested interests - namely the higher castes and men.<br />
Basically, he figured out that the non-Vedic scriptures were wrong (and the Vedas were ineffable) because they denied people their basic humanity (and the Vedas didn't). He wasn't following scripture, he was following basic humanity and ethics.<br />
b. He did not even spare the very Vedas
which he considered ineffable - he rejected the Upanishads and Jyotisha
(Astrology), one of the six Vedangas, and considered the 'eyes' of the Vedas.
His most revolutionary reform was to make the Vedas accessible to Women and
people of the lower castes. This is in direct contravention of the Manusmriti
and the Varnashrama Dharma. The latter is undeniably Vedic in origin. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
Essentially, he was
a kite that rose against the wind, not with it.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11.0pt; margin: 0in;">
b. Swamiji rejected
the notion of hereditary caste based and male privileges. He worked actively to
provide women the rights denied to them by 'corrupted Hinduism'. Clearly, a
pro-woman stance and a 'rights based' approach.<br />
<br /></div>
<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt;">All these evidences prove that Swami Dayanand
Saraswati was very clearly a feminist. And he wasn't the only one.</span></div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-1611433114318761932014-06-07T21:00:00.000+05:302014-06-30T20:17:31.690+05:30Winter has Ended<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">It's been a long time since I've written anything. 2012 may not have brought the apocalypse to this earth, but it was a pretty apocalyptic year for me. And it's not like I haven't written anything in this time - I even published a short note on the occasion of Shivaratri 2013.<br />
<br />
2013 was a great year for me. What with the Kumbh Mela, and my entry into ONGC (henceforth to be referred as the COMPANY) and the beginning of my 4 month training (mostly) in Dehradun, I've learnt so much, done so much, met so many new and awesome people.<br />
<br />
I wrote a lot of poetry in Dehradun and Rishikesh. I spent my free time in Cambay reading up on subjects such as Origami, the Philosophy of Hinduism, Hindutva v. Hinduism (Thank you, NaMo), The Varnashrama Dharma, and Feminism and Skepticism.<br />
<br />
But what ultimately compelled me to break my silence (apart from a steady job and proper internet access) was a Facebook debate between an academic and myself, sparked by the tweets of one Madhu Kishwar. <br />
<br />
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en">Safest and most convenient dress for women is the Punjabi salwar/ churidaar kameez. Efficient, yet feminine! Suitable even for air hostesses<br />
— Madhu Kishwar (@madhukishwar) <a href="https://twitter.com/madhukishwar/statuses/473366128429789184">June 2, 2014</a></blockquote>While the author of the tweet has subsequently gone on record saying she wasn't talking about rape at all (and I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt), it did spark the debate that it did.<br />
<br />
More on the debate in the next post.<br />
<script async="" charset="utf-8" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js"></script></div>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-83512339582794360822013-03-11T01:24:00.000+05:302014-09-12T22:01:31.402+05:30The Idols<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
'So... who are these folks exactly?'</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
"My picture of Godhead."</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
'Your picture of Godhead is a dreadlocked stoner and his family of mix n match critters?'</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
"Just so."</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
'Explain.'</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
"Make up your own story - it's more fun that way."</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
He looked at the picture. Humans worshipped a vast variety of weird looking deities. This he knew. He was told that the current favourite was a bearded guy tortured and left to die upon a cross. Crowned with a wreath of thorns, eyes closed in prayer, face contorted in pain, skin flayed by whipping, limbs nailed to the wood, side pierced by a spear, legs broken and dying slowly, surrounded by mourning friends and family. Completely unlike this picture. This here, was a picture of domestic bliss.</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
It showed a family of four - Dad, Mum, Big brother and Little brother. They appeared to be forest-dwelling tribals, standing in a clearing on the banks of a river surrounded by a menagerie of animals, the stars and the mountains looking over them. Dad was clad in tiger skins, Mum in a simple sari (sans blouse and petticoat, which was apparently the tribal style), Big brother wore a dhoti and Little brother was a naked toddler clinging to his mum.</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
Little brother was the most recognizable, with the body of a chubby toddler and the head of a three-eyed elephant. Hardly surprising, since mum and dad also had three eyes each. This was obviously Ganesh, heart-throb of millions, pictured here amusing himself with a lasso. </div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
Big brother was a proud-looking, strapping young lad, dark-skinned like his mother, and bearing a spear. He didn't have three eyes, but had six heads that presumably served him just as well. </div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
Mum was simply beautiful. She was olive-skinned, with three eyes shining with benevolence and jaw set with conviction, as if to say 'I am what I am.' The baby on her hip said 'doting mother', the man on her right hand said 'loving wife', while the sharp-looking sickle hanging from her belt said 'Don't mess with my family.'</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
And Dad, Dad was the picture of contentment. At first blush he looked like a hippie/caveman, with his long brown hair in dreadlocks, three eyes half closed in semi-consciousness, snakes coiled at his throat and wrists, the head of an axe peeking over his right shoulder, chest covered in a necklace of human skulls and his body smeared with ashes. But a second look revealed hidden depths, for he had one arm on the shoulder of his firstborn, and another around his wife's waist, and the gleam in his barely visible eyes and his wry smile seemed to speak volumes about his true nature.</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
So these were her idols - Shiva and his family.'Tell me their story' he said, finally ripping his eyes away from that glorious picture, 'I'm dying to hear it.'</div>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
<tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh1ZY4qGFcFWl0tDQF9GULmNo7EwpqxgEIOhnjbkcFEcTh8c5eJ2M1gxDOlGy_U9tC8yNVj3ol-_MLQoZHmSSz2ixxpXsmVxsEuZE5NwP4IkmhbX5-RIqcwauFQbdxPZHO3eRhLjRTrumI/s1600/Ganesh+and+Ma.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh1ZY4qGFcFWl0tDQF9GULmNo7EwpqxgEIOhnjbkcFEcTh8c5eJ2M1gxDOlGy_U9tC8yNVj3ol-_MLQoZHmSSz2ixxpXsmVxsEuZE5NwP4IkmhbX5-RIqcwauFQbdxPZHO3eRhLjRTrumI/s1600/Ganesh+and+Ma.jpg" /></a></td></tr>
<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 9px; line-height: 12px; text-align: left;">Mum and baby Ganesh, the Santhali version.</span></td></tr>
</tbody></table>
<div style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px;">
<br /></div>
</div>
Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-13117520606699880762011-12-22T13:36:00.002+05:302011-12-22T13:41:09.532+05:30Wangst<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-family: Georgia, "Times New Roman", serif;">“Decadence hath many names,<br />And many of them I now answer to,<br />For when hoisted by my own petard,<br />Why blame should I the trickster world?”</span><br />
<br />
<div class="separator" style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none; clear: both; text-align: center;">
</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEinq7W3OCE8QculioBje6EY4_Qk2-eDf4zZZM5dHkxnGU1hnARJkbhiYGvMvcxHSMPPg7Eq3IOnbh7KQijpQuPFwoYWJTJGj3Et-FZjNDzEEWtwVgUD3A8tSzWdZHtZlC7WBoSnjyEZTsE/s1600/Top.gif" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" rea="true" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEinq7W3OCE8QculioBje6EY4_Qk2-eDf4zZZM5dHkxnGU1hnARJkbhiYGvMvcxHSMPPg7Eq3IOnbh7KQijpQuPFwoYWJTJGj3Et-FZjNDzEEWtwVgUD3A8tSzWdZHtZlC7WBoSnjyEZTsE/s1600/Top.gif" /></a></div>
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none;">
<br /></div>
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">This wasn't my idea of standing on my feet.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">To be a lackey, who lacked servility.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">To be the angry and reckless girl I am,</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Rather than the sensible woman I thought I really was.</span><br />
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none;">
<br /></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">I am a cog in the wheel, a necessary one,<br /><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">As I knew I would be one day,</span><br /><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">But realized I perhaps too late</span><br /><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">That necessity does not imply importance.</span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi8s0jy_umNA8ekESzypJv_FM6BMiaeyaaSk9JPG1Of3LBaJi7yn-xclmBViv5BRfsYOGem6KG_-2UAM8qGZYPJCPE8DMUTjJrYtvkGqW5gdvO3IuxzF_c-_t3ekODb5PbV0EXcqnj-X-g/s1600/Middle.gif" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" rea="true" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi8s0jy_umNA8ekESzypJv_FM6BMiaeyaaSk9JPG1Of3LBaJi7yn-xclmBViv5BRfsYOGem6KG_-2UAM8qGZYPJCPE8DMUTjJrYtvkGqW5gdvO3IuxzF_c-_t3ekODb5PbV0EXcqnj-X-g/s1600/Middle.gif" /></a><br />
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none;">
</div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none; text-align: right;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Another in my place would had more patience,</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">To either tolerate or quietly jump ship,</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">But alas! not I, I'm afraid to say,</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Going quietly isn't really my forte.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none; text-align: right;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">So I take to Drama, and with much fanfare,</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">I proceed to undo all that I've done,</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Forsooth I say, 'What is reputation!</span><br />
<span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">If not the unfaithful shadow of true character?'</span></div>
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none;">
<br /></div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgHbsS2uAfTICAJtxhincs4E0UeTm_1i7SIaBobenStju93tv8G7S60_tgAJ9ymi9saBZtMYydOYB3AQhNSrmxxhQv_pSO0xNWHliFODCnYT_w7KkTMASj3pvRqxT97NDuYgsF2KguVSf4/s1600/Top.gif" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" rea="true" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgHbsS2uAfTICAJtxhincs4E0UeTm_1i7SIaBobenStju93tv8G7S60_tgAJ9ymi9saBZtMYydOYB3AQhNSrmxxhQv_pSO0xNWHliFODCnYT_w7KkTMASj3pvRqxT97NDuYgsF2KguVSf4/s1600/Top.gif" /></a></div>
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none;">
<br /></div>
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none; text-align: right;">
<span style="font-family: Georgia, "Times New Roman", serif;">“It's not really all that much of a deal,<br />It was just a job that was well done,<br />By them, who made me hate myself<br />So much that just to spite the face,<br />I would very gladly cut off the nose.”</span></div>
<div style="border-bottom: medium none; border-left: medium none; border-right: medium none; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;">
<br /></div>
</div>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-60428001954057228042011-03-21T14:04:00.000+05:302011-03-21T14:04:23.293+05:30The Trite Tale of the Brooding Bloodsucker<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<u>GRAPHIC VERSION</u><br />
<br />
<br />
4 fingernails, hard as diamond leave the bark of a tree scarred <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">MALICE BE MY ORNAMENT </span><br />
<br />
Pan left to right on a ruined village with bleeding corpses on the streets <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">EVIL BE MINE PRIDE</span> <br />
<br />
Pan toe to head (in profile) of a silhouette of The Vampire Protagonist (our hero) – a tall young man on a wind-lashed slope overlooking that village <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">FASHIONED IN THY VERY IMAGE</span> <br />
<br />
He turns <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">I SHALL TURN THY TIDE</span> <br />
<br />
The moon rising over dark and creepy woods <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">THUS SCHOOLED IN THE SONGS OF THE WILD </span><br />
<br />
A black and white photo in the flickering candle light – blood trickling down the top. Subject: our hero when he was still human, with his fiancée <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">I DROWN MEMORY AND NATURE</span> <br />
<br />
People screaming in terror, running helter-skelter, seeking refuge in churches (or temples). A very scared woman (a la The Scream) pointing towards someone <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">PEOPLE KNOW ME AS THE DEVIL’S CHILD</span> <br />
<br />
A clergyman (or a Hindu priest) declaiming from a pulpit (or the steps of a temple) addressing a huge crowd. Pan out to the church tower (or shikhar/gopuram) <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">AND I CONTEST NOT THEIR PRELATURE</span> <br />
<br />
A bunch of kids (they could be in college) around a bonfire – camera seeks out our hero, dressed in jacket and jeans – dark colours, sitting apart from the crowd – final frame has the bonfire on the right and the hero on the left <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">PERHAPS THAT’S WHY, FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL</span> <br />
<br />
A gust of wind, hero pricks his nose and turns – cut to The Hapless Belle (our heroine) who’s walking in <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">WAS SENT MY WAY, THIS HAPLESS BELLE</span> <br />
<br />
Hero stands up and looks at her <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">HER VISAGE SWEET, FOR NO FAULT OF HERS</span> <br />
<br />
Cut to hero’s eyes wide with shock <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">BURNS INTO MINE EYES</span> <br />
<br />
Heroine stops in her tracks, having noticed the hero <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">SHE KNOWS NOT WHY, BUT STILL AVERS</span> <br />
<br />
She opens her mouth, apparently in greeting, but the hero turns on his heel <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">OF OUR LONG-FORGOTTEN TIES</span> <br />
<br />
Hero throws away a corpse he’s freshly drained <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">KNOW SHE CANNOT MY EVIL WAYS</span> <br />
<br />
Flashback: Hero’s fiancée, from the photograph, revealing her fangs and biting him <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">NOR OF MY BLOODY PAST</span> <br />
<br />
Hero watches heroine surreptitiously from the shadows… <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">BUT WITHOUT HER SCENT I AM SPENT</span> <br />
<br />
…and she suddenly feels his presence and looks around, at which point the hero flees to the woods at preternatural speed and stops at a tree trunk, where he thinks of her and collapses to the ground <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">AND WITH IT I CAN’T LAST</span> <br />
<br />
The hero’s thoughts: torn between the gorgeous fiancée of the past and the beauteous heroine of the present <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">RENDERED HELPLESS BY THE VAGARIES OF TIME</span> <br />
<br />
Hero breaks something (a mirror?) in frustration – splinter cuts his hand – cut heals instantaneously <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">INURED TO THE STRENGTH OF THE AGES </span><br />
<br />
Hero collapses to the ground screaming, looking towards the heaven <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">I AM CRUSHED AND ROBBED OF REASON AND RHYME</span> <br />
<br />
Hero on the forest floor, lying like the dead, the dilemma still looming <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">AND LEFT, A CARRION OF IMAGES</span> <br />
<br />
Heroine with a lantern, separating from a search party, makes her way to the very spot where the hero is lying prostrate <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">MEANWHILE SHE MAKES, UNINFORMED, HER AMOROUS ADVANCES</span> <br />
<br />
She stops when she reaches him and bends down (to take his pulse?) – he opens his eyes and slowly sits up, unable to move away or to take his eyes off her <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">UNSLAKED THAT I AM, I CAN’T HELP MYSELF, AND I RETURN HER GLANCES</span> <br />
<br />
Cut to a dark alley scene, heroine walking alone, street gang at her heels – she starts running <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">THUS DOOMED IN LOVE, THIS WAY OR THAT</span> <br />
<br />
Hero jumps out of nowhere, heroine walks into him – he steadies her and faces the bad guys <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">I ALLOW MYSELF THIS PLEASURE</span> <br />
<br />
Fistfight; hero throws the last goon bodily out of the frame <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">I THROW THE FUTURE TO THE WINDS</span> <br />
<br />
The couple embrace, the fiancée comes out of nowhere and looms at the corner of the frame, glowering at the scene <br />
<br />
<span style="color: red;">AND THE HERE AND NOW I TREASURE</span> <br />
<br />
ENDSCREEN: “THE BEGINNING?”<br />
<br />
</div>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4741903853229993271.post-32651383605105557832010-08-31T01:11:00.001+05:302010-08-31T01:12:11.598+05:30What would you wish for?<b><span lang="EN-US">Me:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> I believe, that the things that
belong to me and the people that belong with me will find their way to me
eventually, and I to them. I have nothing to wish for.</span><br />
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b><span lang="EN-US">Him:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> You may not wish to acquire, but
you might want to reject some things and people. Wouldn’t you wish for that
choice?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<span lang="EN-US"><br /></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal">
<b><span lang="EN-US">Me:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> I don’t believe in duality, dear friend.
Darkness in my opinion, isn’t even the absence of light – it is just the
inability to see it.<o:p></o:p></span></div>Limahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05500564799004884746noreply@blogger.com1